Re: [Foundation-l] Re:Wikimedia Communs - Wikimedia-l

28 May 2004

"Erik Moeller" &lt;erik_moeller(a)gmx.de&gt; schrieb:
...
  Andre-
  I think the effect will rather be opposite. By
introducing many things
 at once, it is likely that some will not be used that would be if
 presented separately.  
 I find it difficult to believe that we would generate a lot of interest  
 with an announcement that we have now a shared media repository, but that  
 it isn't possible to use images from there anywhere without re-uploading  
 them, that there is no improved upload form, no transparent inclusion of  
 images, etc. I think it would generate about the same interest that  
 Wikisource did, with a few people like yourself starting to put up what  
 they've been wanting to put somewhere for a long time and creating the  
 basic structure (with the associated problems I have described below). 
Perhaps. I'd say it's worth the try. And I don't think that waiting until
we have all that will make the enthousiasm any larger. At least when we
put it up, _something_ will be made. And in a few month's time, it may
well be something useful. The alternative is to wait a few months, then
set something, and a few month's time from _then_ have something useful.

...
  On the other hand, when we launch the Commons in one
fell swoop, with all  
 the changes - the brandnew upload form, the single login, the transparent  
 inclusion if images, perhaps a "Move to commons" button on image pages -  
 that will certainly generate a lot of interest in "What's going on over  
 there?" and thanks to single sign-on, people can try it out immediately  
 without having to set up yet another account. 
And what do they find? Another wiki where they can login and upload images
to. Hurray! That's going to generate a lot of interest! Now when I push
this button it does not go to wikipedia but to wikicommons. Let's see
what it is. Hey! An image description page! Wow! Now my image description
page is on another Wiki!

That's not what is going to interest people for this. What gets people
interested is _content_. Thousands of pictures, and a method to easily
find one that you need to complete your article.

...
   Also, I think
we can diide the users of Wikicommons in two groups - those
 directly interested, and those who are interested because it helps them
 with another project. The first group can be got without extra features.
 The second group will more likely be caught with content than with
 features.  
 I think the first group is very small, and I think the second group will  
 be initially interested, but turned away by the samll things like having  
 to create a new account, having to re-upload files, etc. Most people have  
 a very low tolerance of frustration, especially when working on hobby  
 projects. That's why usability is so essential, and the features we want  
 are really usability features. For example, I also think that  
 participation on Meta would be much greater if we had single sign-on. 
They will not get turned away by those things. They will get turned away
by lack of content, by lack of usefulness of the WikiCommons for their
own projects, like a Wikipedia article series. And the solution for that
is not to make things easier, but to make them more useful.

...
  > - The
initial edits on a wiki lay the foundation of what that wiki will
> become. If just a few people get involved in this project, because it
> offers no really cool, exciting possibilities, then the project foundation
> may well not be as solid as it could be. For example, people may decide to
> create image categories and upload requirements in the first two weeks.
> This structure will then become harder and harder to change as it seeps
> in, and when we add all the new cool features which attract more people --
> a better upload form, transparent use of commons media from all wikis,
> single sign-on -- it may already be too late to quickly and effectively
> fix certain problems. Too much may have grown into the structure already.  
  Again, the cool, exciting features are I think
not what draws people to the
 project. Their own wish for a project like this, and the content of the
 project are the more likely elements.  
 See above. 
See above.

...
   Problems like
you describe will definitely happen, but I think they will
 happen just as much if we wait as when we don't.  
 Why do you think that? 
Why do you think they will not? Are people going to make a better site
structure because they don't need to login? Are people going to make
better descriptions of their pictures because they can use them without
re-uploading? That's ridiculous!

There's one thing I'm certain of, though. There is one way to be certain
that noone is going to be interested in something, and that is by not
offering it in the first place. And three months of having the thing
with little interest will still create more useful content than three
months of not having it at all.

Andre Engels