Banners for logged-in users (was:How can we fix the two-stage page loading problem?)

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How can we fix the two-stage page...

Strainu

5 Sep 2017 5 Sep '17

5:38 a.m.

Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different. 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

...

WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several years.

While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on mobile just last month, while being logged in. Strainu

...

Regards Seddon On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

Hey Ori, I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed work well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes from logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite relevant for logged in users. Lodewijk On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia projects at

the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it. And then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central notice / gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page again, or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo the change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the page. Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article from being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry. Since only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on the WMF's bottom line to be negligible. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Tito Dutta

5 Sep 5 Sep

6:47 a.m.

-- True. I also saw the banner several times (not this year) until I enabled " Suppress display of fundraiser banners" in preferences>>gadgets (tried on En Wikipedia). As a sidenote I found it very difficult to donate using an Indian Visa debit card or internet banking (that's all I have). It would be great if someone can suggest me (feel free to PM me or write to User talk:Titodutta directly) how to donate using the mentioned payment options. Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call. On 5 September 2017 at 18:08, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different. 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several

years. While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on mobile just last month, while being logged in. Strainu

Regards Seddon On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote: > Hey Ori, > > I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed

work

> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes

from

> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite

relevant

> for logged in users. > > Lodewijk > > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> > > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net>

wrote:

> > > > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia

projects at

> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.

And

> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central

notice /

> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page

again,

> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo

the

> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the page. > > > > > > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up > > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA > > > > > > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article

from

> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.

Since

> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on

the

> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible. > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Joseph Seddon

7:04 a.m.

Hey Strainu, You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding specifically fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has not for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human error or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this has occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some 3000 banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't gone wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to claim :P Regards Seddon On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different. 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several

years. While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on mobile just last month, while being logged in. Strainu

Regards Seddon On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote: > Hey Ori, > > I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed

work

> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes

from

> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite

relevant

> for logged in users. > > Lodewijk > > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> > > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net>

wrote:

> > > > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia

projects at

> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.

And

> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central

notice /

> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page

again,

> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to undo

the

from

> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.

Since

> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on

the

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-- Seddon *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)* *Wikimedia Foundation*

Romaine Wiki

12 Sep 12 Sep

3:38 a.m.

I am sorry to say but I am constantly logged in and do see fundraising banners every year. Each time when it was announced fundraising banners would come, I have seen them logged in, in multiple countries. Romaine Op dinsdag 5 september 2017 heeft Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org> het volgende geschreven:

...

Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally different. 2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org

<javascript:;>>:

WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several

years. While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on mobile just last month, while being logged in. Strainu > > Regards > Seddon > > > > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org

<javascript:;>> wrote:

> Hey Ori, > > I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could indeed

work

> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations comes

from

> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite

relevant >> for logged in users. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>>

wrote: >> >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>> wrote:

>> > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net

<javascript:;>>

wrote:

> > > > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia

projects at

> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing it.

And

> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central

notice /

> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page

again, >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to

undo

the >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the

page.

> > > > > > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up > > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA > > > > > > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an article

from

> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry.

Since

> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact on

the >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>

?subject=unsubscribe>

>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>

?subject=unsubscribe>

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?subject=unsubscribe> -- Seddon *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)* *Wikimedia Foundation* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> ?subject=unsubscribe>

Joseph Seddon

9:41 a.m.

Hey David & Romaine, I wanted to just give a quick reply to let you know that I am looking into this further. I will reiterate that WMF fundraising does not and has not actively shown fundraising banners to logged in users for the past five years and I do apologise if you've been disrupted in your work whether through human or technical error. The possible causes for this are numerous and it will take time to identify the scale, cause and solution to this. Regards Seddon On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hey Strainu, You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding

specifically

fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has not for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human error or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this has occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some

3000

banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't gone wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to

claim

:P Regards Seddon On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote: > Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally

different.

2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org

<javascript:;>>:

WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several

<javascript:;>> wrote: > > > >> Hey Ori, > >> > >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could

indeed

> work > >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations

comes

from

> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite

relevant >> for logged in users. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>>

wrote: >> >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>> wrote:

>> > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net

<javascript:;>> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia > projects at > >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing

it.

And

> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central

notice /

> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the page

again, >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to

undo

the >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the

page. > >> > > >> > > >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped up > >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA > >> > > >> > > >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an

article

> from > >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable expiry. > Since > >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact

the >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>

?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>

?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

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-- Seddon *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)* *Wikimedia Foundation*

Liam Wyatt

10:02 a.m.

For what it's worth - and this might explain some people's circumstances: I see many fundraising banners each year, even though I'm logged in, but the reason I see them is because I've clicked on a Wikipedia article link while using a third-party website (e.g. from Facebook, or twitter). In those cases when I land on the wikipedia article i'm still within the 'mini-broswer' of facebook etc and the fundraising banner system can not know that I'm logged in on my primary browser. This happen equally on my desktop and then also on my mobile phone. So, while it is true that the WMF is not showing banners to logged in people, it is equally true that I see a lot of banners (when I've clicked on wikipedia links from within other websites/platforms). No one is lying - it's just we're talking about what we mean by 'logged in' differently. This does not explain every possible circumstance, for every person, for why people in this thread are saying that they see banners even though they're logged in. But it is one explanation of a common situation that might explain things for some people. Hope that helps, -Liam / Wittylama wittylama.com Peace, love & metadata On 12 September 2017 at 18:41, Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

I am sorry to say but I am constantly logged in and do see fundraising banners every year. Each time when it was announced fundraising banners would come, I have

seen

them logged in, in multiple countries. Romaine Op dinsdag 5 september 2017 heeft Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org> het volgende geschreven:

Hey Strainu, You are probably right in that you saw a banner but regarding

specifically > fundraising banners, I am 100% certain that the WMF does not and has

not

> for some years actively shown banners to users who are logged in. The > caveat with that is this does not preclude any possibility of human

error

> or a software bug. I'm not aware of any specific occasion where this

has

occurred in the last two years but with a piece of software that serves billions of page views, across 20-30 countries and some probably some

3000 > banner tests during that period, probabilities that something hadn't

gone

wrong start reaching levels of sigma that not even I would attempt to

claim

:P Regards Seddon On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote: > Changing subject, the other thread is about something totally

different.

2017-09-05 14:38 GMT+03:00 Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org

<javascript:;>>:

> WMF hasn't shown fundraising banners to logged in users for several years. While I wouldn't bet my life on it, I'm pretty sure I saw banners on mobile just last month, while being logged in. Strainu > > Regards > Seddon > > > > On 5 Sep 2017 08:33, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org

<javascript:;>> wrote: > > > >> Hey Ori, > >> > >> I like the creative thinking :) For the fundraising that could

indeed

> work > >> well (although I have no numbers on what percentage of domations

comes

from >> logged in users etc), but there are also campaigns tht are quite relevant >> for logged in users. >> >> Lodewijk >> >> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ori Livneh <ori.livneh(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>>

wrote: >> >> > On Sep 3, 2017 13:02, "David Gerard" <dgerard(a)gmail.com

<javascript:;>> wrote:

>> > >> > On 2 September 2017 at 02:09, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net

<javascript:;>> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > This is possibly the most annoying feature of the Wikimedia > projects at > >> > the moment. You access a page. Then you start reading or editing

it. > > And > > >> > then suddenly the page jumps when a fundraising banner / central > > notice / > > >> > gadget / beta feature loads. So you have to start reading the

page

> > again, > > >> > or you have to find where you were editing again, or you have to > undo > > the > > >> > change you just made since you made it in the wrong part of the > page. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Or you click "edit" and it hits the banner that suddenly popped

> >> > under your click. AAAAAAAAAAAA > >> > > >> > > >> > One possible solution would be to exempt anyone who edits an

article > > from > > >> > being shown a banner by means of a cookie with a suitable

expiry.

> Since > >> > only a tiny fraction of visitors edit, I would expect the impact

the >> > WMF's bottom line to be negligible. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>

?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;> > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

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participants (5)

Joseph Seddon
Liam Wyatt
Romaine Wiki
Strainu
Tito Dutta