Obnoxious fundraisers again: Undismissable notice

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Re: Obnoxious fundraisers again:...

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David Gerard

17 Dec 2022 17 Dec '22

2:16 p.m.

If you aren't logged in and you're on mobile, the fundraising notice now takes up 1.5 screens, and can't be dismissed - there's only "Maybe later", and that demands an email address and can't be dismissed. The fundraising department are making the site actually unusable again. - d.

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Benjamin Ikuta

17 Dec 17 Dec

2:32 p.m.

We ought to have an RfC proposing to limit the size of such disruptive banners.

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 6:16 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: If you aren't logged in and you're on mobile, the fundraising notice now takes up 1.5 screens, and can't be dismissed - there's only "Maybe later", and that demands an email address and can't be dismissed. The fundraising department are making the site actually unusable again. - d. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Paulo Santos Perneta

4:42 p.m.

I thought it was decided by the community[1] they wouldn't be allowed in that kind of format anymore 🤔 at least on wiki.en. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC_on_the… Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com> escreveu no dia sábado, 17/12/2022 à(s) 14:32:

...

We ought to have an RfC proposing to limit the size of such disruptive banners.

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David Gerard

6:37 p.m.

I wonder if any of them check logged-out on mobile. After that RFC, this just comes across as the fundraising team trying it on. On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 at 16:44, Paulo Santos Perneta <paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I thought it was decided by the community[1] they wouldn't be allowed in that kind of format anymore 🤔 at least on wiki.en. > > [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC_on_the… > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com> escreveu no dia sábado, 17/12/2022 à(s) 14:32: >> >> >> >> We ought to have an RfC proposing to limit the size of such disruptive banners. >> >> >> >> > On Dec 17, 2022, at 6:16 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > If you aren't logged in and you're on mobile, the fundraising notice >> > now takes up 1.5 screens, and can't be dismissed - there's only "Maybe >> > later", and that demands an email address and can't be dismissed. >> > >> > The fundraising department are making the site actually unusable again. >> > >> > >> > - d. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Jimmy Wales

3:42 p.m.

A screenshot might be helpful - I just gave this a try myself and I did get the 1.5 screen one (which isn't a big deal to me) but the part that sounded important to me - "can't be dismissed" wasn't true. There was a clear link to dismiss that said "No thanks" as well as one that said "Maybe later". On 2022-12-17 14:16, David Gerard wrote: > If you aren't logged in and you're on mobile, the fundraising notice > now takes up 1.5 screens, and can't be dismissed - there's only "Maybe > later", and that demands an email address and can't be dismissed. > > The fundraising department are making the site actually unusable again. > > > - d. > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Rey Bueno

7:05 p.m.

Samuel Patton

7:13 p.m.

Hi all, I work in online fundraising and I'd like to provide some clarification on this particular mobile fundraising banner. There are several options to dismiss the banner. There is a "no thanks" option at the top of the banner. A user can also scroll down to see the article without needing to click on the banner at all. I appreciate the feedback on ways to make it simpler for readers to reach their article and find what they're looking for. We'll line up some close option tests to try over this weekend. Thanks, Sam On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:05 PM Rey Bueno via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Here's a proposition for the WMF. You can keep the banners as big and as long as you want, but in return you must sponsor the next Arch Missions to back contents from top 10 Wikipedias (English, Japanese, Russian, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese) to Moon & beyond. Editors do not get paid from spending so much time on Wikipedia, but at least they'll all derive some reward from it. Context of Arch Mission: https://www.space.com/40598-lunar-library-wikipedia-astrobotic-moon-mission… _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

-- Sam Patton (he/him) Senior Manager, Online Fundraising Wikimedia Foundation

David Gerard

7:22 p.m.

You put the dismissal button *two screens away* from where the user is. You're choosing to make the banner hard to dismiss. Look, we're trying to assume good faith here, but you're not making it easy with the track record of observed behaviour. On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 at 19:14, Samuel Patton <spatton(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > > Hi all, I work in online fundraising and I'd like to provide some clarification on this particular mobile fundraising banner. There are several options to dismiss the banner. There is a "no thanks" option at the top of the banner. A user can also scroll down to see the article without needing to click on the banner at all. > > I appreciate the feedback on ways to make it simpler for readers to reach their article and find what they're looking for. We'll line up some close option tests to try over this weekend. > > Thanks, > Sam > > On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:05 PM Rey Bueno via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: >> >> Here's a proposition for the WMF. >> >> You can keep the banners as big and as long as you want, but in return you must sponsor the next Arch Missions to back contents from top 10 Wikipedias (English, Japanese, Russian, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese) to Moon & beyond. Editors do not get paid from spending so much time on Wikipedia, but at least they'll all derive some reward from it. >> >> Context of Arch Mission: >> https://www.space.com/40598-lunar-library-wikipedia-astrobotic-moon-mission… >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > -- > > Sam Patton (he/him) > > Senior Manager, Online Fundraising > > Wikimedia Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Rey Bueno

18 Dec 18 Dec

5:40 p.m.

Because of that, the proposition still stands, in which anyone can re-post if another village pump RfC is ever needed.

Samuel Klein

5:48 p.m.

David - include a screenshot next time? I haven't seen that banner design. I browse logged-out on Android, and have been seeing a close or X at the top for large banners, or both (Close X) at the bottom of medium ones. Is there a way to see all current banners + how they look in various emulators? Perhaps https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_banners could use an update. I am curious about the use + impact of anything over a single screen of banner, and would love to read more about how that's evaluated; it seems hard to use both if I want to give and if I do not. And if banners have unique names anywhere, it would be good for this to be findable by readers to make these conversations easier // more reproducible S On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:23 PM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, I work in online fundraising and I'd like to provide some

clarification on this particular mobile fundraising banner. There are several options to dismiss the banner. There is a "no thanks" option at the top of the banner. A user can also scroll down to see the article without needing to click on the banner at all.

I appreciate the feedback on ways to make it simpler for readers to

reach their article and find what they're looking for. We'll line up some close option tests to try over this weekend.

Thanks, Sam On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:05 PM Rey Bueno via Wikimedia-l <

wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> > Here's a proposition for the WMF. > > You can keep the banners as big and as long as you want, but in return

you must sponsor the next Arch Missions to back contents from top 10 Wikipedias (English, Japanese, Russian, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese) to Moon & beyond. Editors do not get paid from spending so much time on Wikipedia, but at least they'll all derive some reward from it.

> > Context of Arch Mission: >

https://www.space.com/40598-lunar-library-wikipedia-astrobotic-moon-mission…

> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org,

guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

> Public archives at

https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…

To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

-- Sam Patton (he/him) Senior Manager, Online Fundraising Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines

at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

Public archives at

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-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266

Alastair D

20 Dec 20 Dec

6:39 a.m.

A further concern about these fundraising banners on en.m.wikipedia.org relates to its presentation of the non-signed-in reader's options as either "Give xx" or "Maybe later" or two large buttons (see the floating banner overlapping the bottom of the article screenshot I copied onto the en.wiki discussion yesterday), with "Maybe later" then opening a box for your email address and a "Submit" button. (Yes, the experienced user can use other ways to terminate, but this dialog is the designed user journey. Presenting concerns about this as 3 thematic questions for the WMF: (1) Has there been Legal sign-off that eliciting personal email addresses via such an upfront Money-or-Address dialog is fully compliant (e.g. where GDPR applies) and amounts to informed consent? Has the associated data collection, use and destruction been fully articulated and approved? (2) Some en.m.wikipedia.org users live under regimes where leaving any trail - money or email address - could be personally dangerous: have these Safety issues been approved? (3) More broadly, is pushing a casual reader down what presents as a money-or-address path before they see the information that they originally sought consistent with the overall open-access-to-information ethos of the project?

Peter Southwood

18 Dec 18 Dec

6:21 p.m.

You speak for yourself. P -----Original Message----- From: Rey Bueno via Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] Sent: 17 December 2022 21:05 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Cc: Rey Bueno Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Obnoxious fundraisers again: Undismissable notice Here's a proposition for the WMF. You can keep the banners as big and as long as you want, but in return you must sponsor the next Arch Missions to back contents from top 10 Wikipedias (English, Japanese, Russian, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese) to Moon & beyond. Editors do not get paid from spending so much time on Wikipedia, but at least they'll all derive some reward from it. Context of Arch Mission: https://www.space.com/40598-lunar-library-wikipedia-astrobotic-moon-mission. html _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/ message/Z63PMAW7ICAPH7XWHMWOUA5JDPKGPTY3/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com

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participants (9)

Alastair D
Benjamin Ikuta
David Gerard
Jimmy Wales
Paulo Santos Perneta
Peter Southwood
Rey Bueno
Samuel Klein
Samuel Patton