David Shankbone's first report from Israel (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Israel_Journal:_The_Holy_Land_has_an_image_prob lem) has provoked a bit of controversy. One reaction I got was "why the segue into the COO issue?" It annoys me to see that the MSM are now picking this up (the COO issue) and whilst The Register broke the story I don't think they did anything beyond fact-check what their source told them. Details from Wikinews' investigation have been lifted and written into recent coverage of the issue, we did check the Reg. story and we found more - including bankruptcy proceedings (PACER will give you a list of the creditors). Anyway, back to David in Israel, and I assume a fair number of people are aware this is an expenses-paid trip where the Israeli government and friends are footing the bill. David's first piece seeks to say "here is the stereotype, but that's not what I'm here for". If you read the talk you'll see we have some people think you can't do any story about Israel without going "OMG! Israel-Palestine! Car bombs! Terrorists! Human rights violations! Israeli oppression!". I agree with David's argument that this is like saying every coverage of the U.S. should have an aside about Camp Delta in Guantanamo - and I *know* people who'd do that too - we've had to ban idiots like that from Wikinews in the past. I'd like people on the list to read this with a critical eye and see what they think about Wikinews developing policies and structure to allow this sort of reporting. Keep any eye out for David's forthcoming reports. The indications I have from private email are that they're keeping their journalist guests busy about 12-14 hours a day and if they don't have breakfast with Israeli technologists it's probably the only meal of the day they're getting off the job. Not a holiday by any means. Brian McNeil _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

You've made your opinion perfectly clear on-wiki. I am seeking a wider consultation, not a continuation of that argument in a different venue. Brian McNeil -----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of wikinewssvt(a)optonline.net Sent: 19 December 2007 14:48 To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] David Shankbone in Israel In my opinion, the first-hand story-telling nature of this article, is a clear violation of WN:NPOV which is not just a Wikinews policy, but also a Foundation issue (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view). Don't get me wrong, it is great journalism, which could prove to be a coup for Wikinews, raising its profile. However, it is incongruent with existing policies. Ultimately, I fear that allowing this may be like opening Pandora's box. Sincerely, SVTCobra (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:SVTCobra) ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian McNeil Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:09 am Subject: [Foundation-l] David Shankbone in Israel To: 'Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List' Cc: David Shankbone (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Israel_Journal:_The_Holy_Land_has_an_image_prob _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

David Shankbone's first report from Israel ( http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Israel_Journal:_The_Holy_Land_has_an_image_prob lem) has provoked a bit of controversy. One reaction I got was "why the segue into the COO issue?" It annoys me to see that the MSM are now picking this up (the COO issue) and whilst The Register broke the story I don't think they did anything beyond fact-check what their source told them. Details from Wikinews' investigation have been lifted and written into recent coverage of the issue, we did check the Reg. story and we found more - including bankruptcy proceedings (PACER will give you a list of the creditors). Anyway, back to David in Israel, and I assume a fair number of people are aware this is an expenses-paid trip where the Israeli government and friends are footing the bill. David's first piece seeks to say "here is the stereotype, but that's not what I'm here for". If you read the talk you'll see we have some people think you can't do any story about Israel without going "OMG! Israel-Palestine! Car bombs! Terrorists! Human rights violations! Israeli oppression!". I agree with David's argument that this is like saying every coverage of the U.S. should have an aside about Camp Delta in Guantanamo - and I *know* people who'd do that too - we've had to ban idiots like that from Wikinews in the past. I'd like people on the list to read this with a critical eye and see what they think about Wikinews developing policies and structure to allow this sort of reporting. Keep any eye out for David's forthcoming reports. The indications I have from private email are that they're keeping their journalist guests busy about 12-14 hours a day and if they don't have breakfast with Israeli technologists it's probably the only meal of the day they're getting off the job. Not a holiday by any means. Brian McNeil _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Hoi, When existing policies do not work, change the policies. Thanks, GerardM On Dec 19, 2007 2:48 PM, <wikinewssvt(a)optonline.net> wrote: _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

On 19/12/2007, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil(a)wikinewsie.org> wrote: without You can. However missing the recent changes to Israeli copyright law is more worrying. -- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l