I am not amused when I read digests like the digest below.
Thanks
Klaus Graf
2007/11/22, foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: GFDL and relicensing (SJ Klein)
2. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Lars Aronsson)
3. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Ray Saintonge)
4. Re: Pledge bank (GerardM)
5. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Marc Riddell)
6. Re: GFDL and Relicensing (Robert Rohde)
7. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Dan Rosenthal)
8. Re: FW: A Crime in Missouri (Marc Riddell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:53:47 -0500 (EST)
From: SJ Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and relicensing
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711221551160.27587(a)hera.hcs.harvard.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
"does this conversation have the Viral-nature?"
Others would say that it is the social and not the legal viral component
that has had true impact. (though this hides the fact that law is simply
a social component cast in aa that changes very slowly over time)
SJ
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Robert Horning wrote:
BTW, this is precisely the situation that
Stallman wanted when he wrote
the GFDL. It is a viral license, and taints everything that it
touches. This is also one of the key reasons why there are people who
simply hate the GFDL and GPL, for this exact reason.
Some of us would consider the viral nature as the most enlightened
feature of the licence.
Ec
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:46:29 +0100 (CET)
From: Lars Aronsson <lars(a)aronsson.se>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711222054220.16744(a)localhost.localdomain>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote:
of cases where people (in Germany) notice an
'...or later'
clause and sign a contract anyhow because they know, that this
clause is ineffective.
German law applies *in Germany*, not *to Germans*. As soon as
they (or their works) move beyond borders, they are exposed to
other legal systems. (Go to China and kill someone -- you might
be sentenced to death.) So if the clause is ineffective under
German law, you can feel "safe" only as long as you (and your
work) stay in that country.
Suppose the WMF in the year 2057 decides to use your Wikipedia
articles in accordance with GFDL version 17. You're in Germany
and claim that you never legally agreed to this, and you sue WMF
for copyright infringement in a German court of law. That might
stop WMF from reusing your articles in this way in Germany, but it
doesn't stop WMF from reusing your articles in this way in Mexico.
If you're going to sue anybody for copyright infringement in
Mexico, you must find arguments that work under Mexican law.
The state of Bavaria claims they own Hitler's copyright, which
they confiscated in 1948, and sued a Swedish publisher of a
translated "Mein Kampf" (1992). But the Swedish supreme court in
1998 said a state cannot legally confiscate copyright for the
purpose of blocking publishing, since that would mean censorship,
and turned the case down. The book is sold in stores (part 1, ISBN
978-91-7123-100-0 and part 2, ISBN 978-91-7123-101-7).
--
Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se)
Aronsson Datateknik -
http://aronsson.se
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:22:33 -0800
From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <4745F319.30602(a)telus.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Robert Rohde wrote:
Some of us, myself included, believe that
commercial reuse SHOULD BE
burdensome. Or more specifically, if a commercial publisher is going to
profit on the back of content they didn't create and with no funds going to
the authors, then it should be dreadfully obvious that the content in
question is free content, and not the run-of-the-mill restricted content
that they always publish. In some ways the GFDL is overboard in that regard
(i.e. you don't need a long license document for a single image), but I
believe publishers should be burdened with making their use of free content
clearly identified.
Also, I realize that not everyone feels the same way about being burdensome.
I
have no problem with commercial reuse. In a way it seems to me that
NC licences are counterproductive. We want the viral nature of the
licence to infect the commercial sites.
On the other hand, when it comes to fair use material, I don't think
that it should be our duty to do the fair use evaluation for commercial
operations.
Ec
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:59:35 +0100
From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pledge bank
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<41a006820711221359rb564738t1addc50520aba69b(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hoi,
So it is not interesting that the servers are running and stay that way ...
Hmmm
Thanks,
GerardM
On Nov 22, 2007 8:59 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I really
like the idea of having a pledge bank and keeping people who
are
making regular, albeit small, donations informed
about what WMF is up
to. If
we can say, "Your donations allowed us to
run a number of workshops in
South
Africa. That was 3 months ago, the Africaans
Wikipedia has grown by x
hundred articles since then." My objective here? You're showing donors
that
their money is making a difference, even if -
with English WP at 2 mill+
articles - they never notice the difference.
The problem is, most of the money goes on just keeping the servers
running, it doesn't go on anything interesting.
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:59:31 -0500
From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <C36B65F3.A96F%michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also be curious as to how the law
defines stalking and harassment.
Marc
on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com wrote:
I happen to live near this town and do know the
details [1].
I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
WMF being affected is if the person charged with
harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
BirgitteSB
[1]
http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_10…
2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589&inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
--- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net> wrote:
This copy was meant for this List.
Marc
----------
From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net
Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Date:
Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
To: WikiEN List <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: Foundation List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
and harassment a crime. I
don't know much of the details, I just got it from
CNN. But my question is,
if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
were doing this in
Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
case involve us.
Just curious.
Marc Riddell
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:11:43 -0800
From: "Robert Rohde" <rarohde(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL and Relicensing
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<b4da1c6e0711221411j7b2e774eje4b2728238657d2d(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 22, 2007 1:22 PM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:
Robert Rohde wrote:
Some of us, myself included, believe that
commercial reuse SHOULD BE
burdensome. Or more specifically, if a commercial publisher is going to
profit on the back of content they didn't create and with no funds going
to
the authors, then it should be dreadfully obvious
that the content in
question is free content, and not the run-of-the-mill restricted content
that they always publish. In some ways the GFDL is overboard in that
regard
(i.e. you don't need a long license document
for a single image), but I
believe publishers should be burdened with making their use of free
content
clearly identified.
Also, I realize that not everyone feels the same way about being
burdensome.
I have no problem with commercial reuse. In a way it seems to me that
NC licences are counterproductive. We want the viral nature of the
licence to infect the commercial sites.
<snip>
Actually, I would be careful about this language. I don't want them
"infected". If they choose to embrace GFDL / CC-SA of their own free will,
then fine. But free content shouldn't be a disease that ambushes
unsuspecting publishers. To that end, being very clear about the
implications of these licenses is important.
Frankly calling it "free content" actually feels like a misnomer when using
this "free" material comes with a heavy burden that can hypothetical deprive
people of income from their own work.
-Robert Rohde
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:35:12 -0500
From: Dan Rosenthal <swatjester(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <D8235D60-E698-4B07-8B3D-8777EDC6676C(a)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Depends on the jurisdiction.
-Dan
On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Marc Riddell wrote:
Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also
be curious as to how the law
defines stalking and harassment.
Marc
on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com wrote:
I happen to live near this town and do know the
details [1].
I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
WMF being affected is if the person charged with
harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
BirgitteSB
[1]
http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_10…
2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589
&inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
--- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net> wrote:
This copy was meant for this List.
Marc
----------
From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net
Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Date:
Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
To: WikiEN List <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: Foundation List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
and harassment a crime. I
don't know much of the details, I just got it from
CNN. But my question is,
if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
were doing this in
Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
case involve us.
Just curious.
Marc Riddell
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:48:32 -0500
From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FW: A Crime in Missouri
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <C36B716F.A977%michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Dan,
In you experience, how do some of the definitions go? Isn't, particularly,
harassment a subjective thing?
Marc
on 11/22/07 5:35 PM, Dan Rosenthal at swatjester(a)gmail.com wrote:
Depends on the jurisdiction.
-Dan
On Nov 22, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Marc Riddell wrote:
Thanks, Brigitte, I didn't know. I'd also
be curious as to how the law
defines stalking and harassment.
Marc
on 11/22/07 2:57 PM, Birgitte SB at birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com wrote:
I happen to live near this town and do know the
details [1].
I can't see how this could involve WMF. The idea is
to make it possible to prosecute individuals who
intentionally harass others online. It has nothing to
do with the means of harassment. The only way I see
WMF being affected is if the person charged with
harassment is a checkuser or employee or something.
BirgitteSB
[1]
http://us.f303.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Foundation%2dl&Mid=2863_10…
_3
2964_3161_498_0_31904_1095_70994589
&inc=&Search=&YY=11233&y5beta=yes&y5beta=ye
s&order=down&sort=date&pos=0
--- Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> This copy was meant for this List.
>
> Marc
> ----------
> From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net>
> Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:20:08 -0500
> To: WikiEN List <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Cc: Foundation List
> <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: [Foundation-l] A Crime in Missouri
>
> This is a question for you legal eagles out there:
>
> A town in Missouri (USA) has made on-line stalking
> and harassment a crime. I
> don't know much of the details, I just got it from
> CNN. But my question is,
> if the person charged an/or convicted of this crime
> were doing this in
> Wikipedia, or one of the other Projects, would the
> case involve us.
>
> Just curious.
>
> Marc Riddell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 44, Issue 107
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