Re: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

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Dominic

25 Mar 2009 25 Mar '09

9:41 p.m.

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

...

When I read what is proposed, the impression is given that a process will start with a compulsory outcome. I understand the rationale for one shared logo and favicon. The problem is that it is people outside of Wiktionary that want to improve the Wiktionary "brand" and the last time it was very much these outsiders that made the selection.

Exactly. Despite the fact that fr.wikt and a few others eventually adopted the logo, the logo debacle was not en.wikt's making. It wasn't a refusal to accept the the outcome of the proposal, it was a reluctance to be dictated to by people who weren't a part of the community. I'm afraid this will be interpreted the same way, if we're proposing to just slap a sitenotice on all the Wiktionaries telling them to discuss a new logo. There needs to be community impetus for the change, so that the meta discussion evolves out of actual community desire for a new logo. We should start at places like en.wikt's [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour]], fr.wikt's [[Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]], and es.wikt's [[Wikcionario:Café]], not foundation-l. Dominic _______________________________________________ Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l

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Cary Bass

25 Mar 25 Mar

10:30 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dominic wrote:

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Gerard Meijssen wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree that a proposal that will affect all these projects has to originate in thirty different places. Since there is no central Wiktionary community, the Meta project, and Foundation-l as well as Wiktionary-l (which was cross-posted) is the place to get the discussion going. While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not. The discussion has to get started, no matter where it is, and meta and the two mailing lists are, in fact, the appropriate place to start the discussion. I do expect (and have asked) that links to that discussion are made from those projects (and in the Central Notice as well) I would find it sad if the English Wiktionary were to choose not to involve itself in a process that will ultimately affect its appearance; however, I don't anticipate this will actually be the case. Cary

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Cary Bass

10:37 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Cary Bass wrote:

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While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not.

I'd like a chance to rephrase this, for poor grammar, as well as unintended harshness. The Wiktionary projects should maintain a unique visual identity. It is of the utmost importance that the identity be unique to Wiktionary, but common among the projects. Also, I want to point out: Guillaume Paumier did a great presentation at Wikimania 2007 on Visual Identity here: <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proceedings:GP1> The PDF linked has some well-researched information about Visual Identity, and the workshop was extremely interesting. Cary

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Michael Snow

26 Mar 26 Mar

6:51 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

Cary Bass wrote:

...

While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects

My impression is that the current split is a natural result of the fact that nobody has yet put forward a satisfactory solution. The "classic" logo is not a logo at all, but has the inertia of long use. The new logo would give some consistency but is not compelling, a mixture of good ideas and serious flaws. Since it's not a clear upgrade in the way that the Wikipedia logo was, it's not surprising that different parts of the project have decided not to go with it. Given that background, I would conclude that neither of the current options is desirable, and we need to develop a new Wiktionary logo. I think a well-executed logo would not have much difficulty securing adoption across the project. My own suggestion would be to use individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing press. This would incorporate some aspects of both current logos - from the older one the feel of a dictionary, and from the newer one the more logo-like benefits, while dropping the appearance of game pieces. As I'm not a graphic designer, I'm not going to attempt to actually create the logo, but I would be very interested to see what someone with professional skills could come up with using this concept. --Michael Snow

Jan-Bart de Vreede

6:27 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Announcement Election Committee

Hello everyone, Election time is nearly upon us again. As you may recall the board has three directly elected representatives on it which serve for two years. After last year's restructuring we decided to have the board elections every odd year, and have the chapters select their representatives every even year. As in the past years we rely on an effective election committee to coordinate the elections for us. They not only guarantee that the election is overseen by an independent body, but they also make sure that the tremendous amount of work that needs to be done is taken care of. In the past years the election committee has often lacked one or two essential skills, this is why the board received a request from members of last year's committee to allow them to reach out and form the basis of an election committee in which all the necessary skills were present, but which was also able to operate across the different time zones. The board agreed to this approach and has so far approved the following election committee members after they were proposed. Jesse Plamondon-Willard - User:Pathoschild (UTC-5; Quebec, Canada) Daniel Bryant - User:Daniel (UTC+10:30; Adelaide, Australia) Yann Forget - User:Yann (UTC+1; Haute-Savoie, France) 'Dvortygirl' - User:Dvortygirl (UTC-7; California, United States) Alexandre Emsenhuber - User:iAlex (UTC+1; Neuchâtel, Switzerland) Mohsen Salek - User:Mardetanha (UTC+3:30; Zanjan, IR Iran) Philippe Beaudette - User:Philippe (UTC-5; Oklahoma, United States) Andrew Garrett - User:Werdna (UTC+10; Sydney, Australia) Of course there is always room for more volunteers. If you feel that you can contribute to this committee, please contact the board election committee (Board-elections(a)lists.wikimedia.org) and inform them of your interest and give a small summary of why you think you would be able to help out with this process. Just to make sure we all understand: you cannot be part of the election committee if you are planning to be a candidate or are planning to support any candidate publicly or have any other conflict of interest. Deadline for any extra volunteers is April 3nd 12:00 UTC. After the deadline the election committee will decide which extra volunteers they want to propose to the board for approval. The timeline for the next steps in the process will be published in the beginning of April by the election committee. So if you are interested in becoming a candidate, time to start preparing! Regards Jan-Bart de Vreede Board Liason Election Committee

Casey Brown

9:34 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:51 AM, Michael Snow <wikipedia(a)verizon.net> wrote:

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Given that background, I would conclude that neither of the current options is desirable, and we need to develop a new Wiktionary logo.

Yes, that's what Cary brought up. :-) On <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo/refresh> people have the option of commenting on whether or not they think we should use the 'classic' logo, the 'tile' logo, or design a new logo. He specifically set it up so that "If none of the three options gains a clear majority at the end of the second week of voting, then [he] propose[s] the vote default to option three."

...

My own suggestion would be to use individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing press.

Though actual proposals for new logos will be accepted later (once it is decided how things will work), you can leave a comment about how you feel here: <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Begin_from_Scratch> :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

James Forrester

9:56 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

2009/3/26 Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:51 AM, Michael Snow <wikipedia(a)verizon.net> wrote:

My own suggestion would be to use individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing press.

Well, I did a really quick-and-dirty view of what Michael's tiles-logo-but-actually-movable-type image might look like. It's completely awful - I can't draw, and my Inkscape skills are worse - but I offer it up anyway: :-) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WiktionaryFr-JDF_movable_type_idea_s… The off-green was me failing to be bothered enough to find a gunmetal grey transition shade pair, and of course it's the same rough image just rotated and resized as appropriate, but... :-) J. -- James D. Forrester jdforrester(a)wikimedia.org | jdforrester(a)gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

Stephen Bain

27 Mar 27 Mar

6:48 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

My own suggestion would be to use individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing press.

I couldn't resist making a prototype: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Suggestion -- Stephen Bain stephen.bain(a)gmail.com

Hay (Husky)

12:21 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

I couldn't resist the same urge :) http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wiktionary_husky.svg This is actually a submission from an earlier proposal for the Wikibooks logo. -- Hay On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

My own suggestion would be to use individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing press.

I couldn't resist making a prototype: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Suggestion -- Stephen Bain stephen.bain(a)gmail.com _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Gerard Meijssen

12:36 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

Hoi, What would the to be associate favicon look like ? Thanks, GerardM 2009/3/27 Hay (Husky) <huskyr(a)gmail.com>

...

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> >> My own suggestion would be to use >> individual blocks but to have them be like type pieces from a printing >> press. > > Though actual proposals for new logos will be accepted later (once it > is decided how things will work), you can leave a comment about how > you feel here: <

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo/refresh#Begin_from_Scratch&g…

:-)

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Brion Vibber

8:11 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wiktionary-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos

On 3/25/09 10:51 PM, Michael Snow wrote:

...

Cary Bass wrote:

While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects

Just as background -- I created the current logo over the course of about 5 minutes as a placeholder, figuring it would be replaced with a more permanent logo within a few weeks. It's been about 6 years. :) -- brion

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Brion Vibber
Cary Bass
Casey Brown
Dominic
Gerard Meijssen
Hay (Husky)
James Forrester
Jan-Bart de Vreede
Michael Snow
Stephen Bain