2009/6/15 Rama Neko ramaneko@gmail.com:
The "service project angle" worries me too. I have noticed that many articles of Wikipedia, the service project that makes it easier to find media in Commons by providing encyclopedic context to our content, utterly lack the proper links to our galleries and categories. Furthermore, I sometimes have the feeling that contributors of Wikipedia expect us to host all sorts of unacceptable media in return of the service that they provide; while we of course appreciate the service projects, this is a problem, particularly when these files are copyright violations. In the particular case of Pikiwiki, it would of course be very caricatural to say that all their images are copyvios. There are lots of out-of-scope party snapshots, too.
I'd hope this isn't a summary of the views of other Commons admins.
Anyone else? Or is the Commons admin community this insular and derisive?
- d.
David Gerard schrieb:
2009/6/15 Rama Neko ramaneko@gmail.com:
The "service project angle" worries me too. I have noticed that many articles of Wikipedia, the service project that makes it easier to find media in Commons by providing encyclopedic context to our content, utterly lack the proper links to our galleries and categories. Furthermore, I sometimes have the feeling that contributors of Wikipedia expect us to host all sorts of unacceptable media in return of the service that they provide; while we of course appreciate the service projects, this is a problem, particularly when these files are copyright violations. In the particular case of Pikiwiki, it would of course be very caricatural to say that all their images are copyvios. There are lots of out-of-scope party snapshots, too.
I'd hope this isn't a summary of the views of other Commons admins.
Anyone else? Or is the Commons admin community this insular and derisive?
That was an inversion, a change of perspective. A rhetorical measure, that is intended to show how some arguments of the other party feel. Sometimes this can lead to a catharsis where suddenly the own arguments seem less general and valid and suddenly you can appreciate and understand the worries of the other. Sometimes.
Marcus Buck
2009/6/15 Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org:
David Gerard schrieb:
I'd hope this isn't a summary of the views of other Commons admins. Anyone else? Or is the Commons admin community this insular and derisive?
That was an inversion, a change of perspective. A rhetorical measure, that is intended to show how some arguments of the other party feel. Sometimes this can lead to a catharsis where suddenly the own arguments seem less general and valid and suddenly you can appreciate and understand the worries of the other. Sometimes.
No, I emailed Rama about this first and he said he was entirely serious (and added a string of personal attacks). It's actually verified as his honest view of things. Which suggests he shouldn't be let near anything to do with any other project, but anyway.
So the question is how much this is the atmosphere on Commons. If so, it needs urgent outside action, and no two ways about it.
- d.
David Gerard hett schreven:
2009/6/15 Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org:
David Gerard schrieb:
I'd hope this isn't a summary of the views of other Commons admins. Anyone else? Or is the Commons admin community this insular and derisive?
That was an inversion, a change of perspective. A rhetorical measure, that is intended to show how some arguments of the other party feel. Sometimes this can lead to a catharsis where suddenly the own arguments seem less general and valid and suddenly you can appreciate and understand the worries of the other. Sometimes.
No, I emailed Rama about this first and he said he was entirely serious (and added a string of personal attacks). It's actually verified as his honest view of things. Which suggests he shouldn't be let near anything to do with any other project, but anyway.
So the question is how much this is the atmosphere on Commons. If so, it needs urgent outside action, and no two ways about it.
It's not. It's the general atmosphere on Commons that Commons is not just an appendix and that Commons is a project in its own right. But of course nobody thinks that other projects are "just service projects" or that all Pikiwiki content is useless. That's not the case. And even if Rama _said_ this, I still don't think, that he really _believes_ it (cause it's blatant nonsense). I guess he was just angry.
Commons is a project that has to do much workload with few people. A project that is often perceived to be unfriendly or arrogant. This image is partly self-inflicted and partly created by "the outside world" (that's all the other projects). Cause the users from the other projects contribute much valuable content, but also many copyvios and problematic files. The Commons community has the task to clean up the problematic cases. Some cases can be solved successfully (by adding licenses, sources etc.), others have to be deleted. So Commons has exactly the same problem as administraters in every project. They are always the bad guys cause they delete stuff. If you suggest that there's a general atmosphere like that on Commons, that's just like stories about "admin cabals" on en.wp (or any other project). There's no evil plan of Commons to subjugate all other projects under its reign of terror. There's really none.
Marcus Buck
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:22 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/6/15 Rama Neko ramaneko@gmail.com:
The "service project angle" worries me too. I have noticed that many articles of Wikipedia, the service project that makes it easier to find media in Commons by providing encyclopedic context to our content, utterly lack the proper links to our galleries and categories. Furthermore, I sometimes have the feeling that contributors of Wikipedia expect us to host all sorts of unacceptable media in return of the service that they provide; while we of course appreciate the service projects, this is a problem, particularly when these files are copyright violations. In the particular case of Pikiwiki, it would of course be very caricatural to say that all their images are copyvios. There are lots of out-of-scope party snapshots, too.
I'd hope this isn't a summary of the views of other Commons admins.
Anyone else? Or is the Commons admin community this insular and derisive?
- d.
I hope that this isn't the view of admins outside the Commons community.
Seriously with this kind of discussion we end up nowhere. Perhaps it would be more useful to actually get to the points of problem or just stop discussing at all.
Bryan
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org