I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread, in order to focus on it.
There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind of "Report a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily) to the sidebar.
I'd like to give a little more thought to this idea, i.e. where we want a link to go, and what we want it to do.
Personally I think if such a link simply mails OTRS, that would be suboptimal. It would risk creating a lot of email volume for relatively minor problems, and make it harder to differentiate important issues from minor ones.
By preference, I'd like to see a link that goes to a simple page for requesting help with options such as, "post a public message on the talk page", "email a volunteer for help", etc. In principle, such a page, could even have a single text box for composing a message, a set of instructions, and a dropdown list of actions to take ranging from a talk page post to an OTRS email, etc. Reports of vandalism and other simple problems might also be channeled automatically to one of the existing onwiki noticeboards if the reporter is not asking for privacy.
Clicking on the "report a problem" link should automatically fill in what page one came from. Even more ideally, the report a problem link might be modified based on indicators in the page, such as "Category:Living people", in order to better prioritise and direct correspondence. If the person reporting the problem does choose to post publicly, the post could be flagged with something like "Category:Unresolved problem reports", which might then be replaced with "Category:Resolved problem reports" after it has been looked at and handled.
Ideally, I think problem reports should include the option of being completely anonymous (though presumably with a CAPTCHA or other device to limit spam posts).
-Robert Rohde
I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false positives that might come from a "report a problem" link. I imagine that all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia report it here." And send it to a specific email address.
Birgitte SB
--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Robert Rohde rarohde@gmail.com wrote:
From: Robert Rohde rarohde@gmail.com Subject: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 6:06 PM I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread, in order to focus on it.
There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind of "Report a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily) to the sidebar.
I'd like to give a little more thought to this idea, i.e. where we want a link to go, and what we want it to do.
Personally I think if such a link simply mails OTRS, that would be suboptimal. It would risk creating a lot of email volume for relatively minor problems, and make it harder to differentiate important issues from minor ones.
By preference, I'd like to see a link that goes to a simple page for requesting help with options such as, "post a public message on the talk page", "email a volunteer for help", etc. In principle, such a page, could even have a single text box for composing a message, a set of instructions, and a dropdown list of actions to take ranging from a talk page post to an OTRS email, etc. Reports of vandalism and other simple problems might also be channeled automatically to one of the existing onwiki noticeboards if the reporter is not asking for privacy.
Clicking on the "report a problem" link should automatically fill in what page one came from. Even more ideally, the report a problem link might be modified based on indicators in the page, such as "Category:Living people", in order to better prioritise and direct correspondence. If the person reporting the problem does choose to post publicly, the post could be flagged with something like "Category:Unresolved problem reports", which might then be replaced with "Category:Resolved problem reports" after it has been looked at and handled.
Ideally, I think problem reports should include the option of being completely anonymous (though presumably with a CAPTCHA or other device to limit spam posts).
-Robert Rohde
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2009/3/3 Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com:
I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false positives that might come from a "report a problem" link. I imagine that all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia report it here." And send it to a specific email address.
195468 hits on [[Help:Contents]] in Feb 2009 rank #466 - it's well worth a try. Propose it on [[Help talk:contents]] referring back to this discussion and those agreeing can support it there.
- d.
2009/3/3 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
2009/3/3 Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com:
I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false positives that might come from a "report a problem" link. I imagine that all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia report it here." And send it to a specific email address.
195468 hits on [[Help:Contents]] in Feb 2009 rank #466 - it's well worth a try. Propose it on [[Help talk:contents]] referring back to this discussion and those agreeing can support it there.
Proposed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Contents#Link_to_article_problems_pag...
Please add "yea" or "nay" on this specific proposal there - consensus on the talk page is the usual requirement before a change to a major portal.
- d.
2009/3/3 Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com:
I there is simpler way to solicit these reports this without all the false positives that might come from a "report a problem" link. I imagine that all these people who have issues must click on the "Help" link in the sidebar while looking contact information. Why not have a banner on that page saying "If you have a problem with information about yourself that is on Wikipedia report it here." And send it to a specific email address.
I mooted this on [[Help talk:Contents]] yesterday morning, Quiddity made some suggestions (and we both tweaked the page text somewhat) and I've just put a banner on the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents
I've tightened up the article problem page, per Strunk & White ("Omit needless words."):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_probl...
The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?
- d.
2009/3/4 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?
The page is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_er...
- d.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 15:52, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
The final page for people who have a crappy article about themselves still needs severe tightening and organisation, though with a mind to not causing trouble for OTRS volunteers, who after all are the ones getting the crapflood. Could an OTRS BLP queue handler please have a go at giving that page a severe Strunk & Whitening?
I'm working on that now. I've half a mind to increase the point size on the phrase "Wikipedia has no editorial board" and put it in blink tags; if people could actually grok that, then much of the rest of that text could become unnecessary.
(BTW, I like the banner on Help:Contents.)
2009/3/4 Jim Redmond jim@scrubnugget.com:
I'm working on that now. I've half a mind to increase the point size on the phrase "Wikipedia has no editorial board" and put it in blink tags; if people could actually grok that, then much of the rest of that text could become unnecessary.
I just put <big> tags around it in both places ;-)
I'm working on the assumption that someone with a bad article about them is upset and angry and won't read clearly - large print, simple directions. All the pages still feel too long. They could be shorter if there was a Special:Contact page set up (wtih nice dropdowns, etc) - people are used to those. (Offer an "or email directly to this address" link of course ;-) But OTRS' load would go *way up*.
- d.
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Robert Rohde rarohde@gmail.com wrote:
I'm breaking this specific idea out of the main thread, in order to focus on it.
There seems to be considerable support for adding some kind of "Report a problem" link to pages, (probably not necessarily) to the sidebar.
Problem Reports are used quite successfully on Wikia. The GPL code for it is available at https://svn.wikia-code.com/wikia/trunk/extensions/wikia/ProblemReports/
Basically, readers report problems using the link at the end of each article. Anyone can view and comment on the reports as you can see at http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Special:ProblemReports - click the magnifying glasses for details.
Admins can reply to the reporter by email (if they gave an email address) and can flag the report as "fixed", "closed", "needs staff help", or "pending". Boilerplate responses can be added via the MediaWiki namespace.
Reports are logged in Special:Log/pr_rep_log. You can get reports by email or RSS if you want to.
Angela
Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to get involved in enforcing policy violations?
Hoi, I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.. certainly with loaded questions like this one. Then again, it might be considered a compliment .. "as paranoid as Mike Godwin" .. I like Mike :) Thanks, GerardM
2009/3/3 Anthony wikimail@inbox.org
Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to get involved in enforcing policy violations? _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
We should have him teach a Wikiversity class on how to be like Mike!
________________________________ From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:30:57 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report a problem link
Hoi, I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.. certainly with loaded questions like this one. Then again, it might be considered a compliment .. "as paranoid as Mike Godwin" .. I like Mike :) Thanks, GerardM
2009/3/3 Anthony wikimail@inbox.org
Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to get involved in enforcing policy violations? _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I doubt that it is worth our while to discuss Wikia policies.
I vehemently disagree. I see no reason to assume Wikia have learned nothing that wikimedia could learn from.
I do admit most things they focus on will not translate to wikimedia, but still cross-pollination always enriches the gene-pool.
Yours,
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
2009/3/3 Anthony wikimail@inbox.org:
Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to get involved in enforcing policy violations?
I think paranoia is a significant part of what lawyers are paid for. I expect Wikia's lawyers have given their managers the same advice as Mike has given ours, although the respective managements may have different ideas about what is and isn't an acceptable risk (that isn't generally up to the lawyers).
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
2009/3/3 Anthony wikimail@inbox.org:
Are Wikia's lawyers as paranoid as Mike Godwin, or do they allow staff to get involved in enforcing policy violations?
I think paranoia is a significant part of what lawyers are paid for.
See, it was a neutral term I was using after all!
I expect Wikia's lawyers have given their managers the same advice as
Mike has given ours, although the respective managements may have different ideas about what is and isn't an acceptable risk (that isn't generally up to the lawyers).
Really? You think Wikia's lawyers told Wikia's management that their "strong belief is that [Wikia] can make *suggestions* to the community about what content policy should be, but that *it must remain up to the community whether to adopt such policies and how to enforce them*"? If so, I'd love to hear from someone at Wikia about it, as well as why and to what extent they chose not to follow it.
Or do you think the advice gave to "your managers" is different from that which he gave in this recent email?
2009/3/3 Anthony wikimail@inbox.org:
Really? You think Wikia's lawyers told Wikia's management that their "strong belief is that [Wikia] can make *suggestions* to the community about what content policy should be, but that *it must remain up to the community whether to adopt such policies and how to enforce them*"? If so, I'd love to hear from someone at Wikia about it, as well as why and to what extent they chose not to follow it. Or do you think the advice gave to "your managers" is different from that which he gave in this recent email?
Stop trolling.
Michael, is there any reason not to put Anthony on moderation?
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
Michael, is there any reason not to put Anthony on moderation?
Actually, the problem is the thread, which is a complaint about Wikia practices that is off-topic for this list. Anthony didn't start the discussion, it's the thread that should be moderated.
--Michael Snow
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org