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Gregory Varnum

2 Aug 2018 2 Aug '18

3:51 a.m.

Hello, After many months of work by over 100 individuals around the organization and movement, the Wikimedia Foundation's new website soft launched this week! You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/ So what comes next? Throughout this week, the Communications department and core website team will be doing final tweaks and quality assurance testing in preparations for translations. Over the coming weeks we will be working with affiliates and contributors around the world to make the site in available in Arabic, Chinese, French, German, Russian, and Spanish - in addition to the English version soft launched today. Once the translations are completed, we will be doing a more public announcement regarding the new website and begin more formally implementing usage of it. Additionally, we will be holding office hours in the coming weeks. What about the old website? The old website (aka Foundation Wiki) will be given new life in the coming weeks as the Wikimedia Foundation Governance Wiki - where it will continue to house important documentation for the Wikimedia Foundation like policies, board resolutions and minutes, legal documents, etc. Additional information on the changes coming to that wiki and the plans for migrating archived content to Meta-Wiki will be available in the coming weeks. What else should I know? There is a lot of great things about this new website we are excited to share with all of you! More information about office hours will available in the coming weeks. Until then, we encourage you to take a look and contact me directly if you find any bugs, typos, or have any comments. Thank you! The Communications department greatly appreciates all of the discussions, work, and patience everyone has put into this gigantic undertaking. We are very close to the finish line, and today marks a significant step which was only possible with the help of the 100+ people involved. On behalf of the Communications department and core website team (Heather, Zack, Katherine, Mel, and Greg), -greg ------- Gregory Varnum Communications Strategist Wikimedia Foundation gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org Pronouns: He/Him/His

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Yair Rand

2 Aug 2 Aug

4:56 a.m.

The new website highlights "Advocacy" as one of the three areas that the Foundation deals with, along with Research and Technology. From the page linked, it promotes the WMF's misguided and unauthorized venture into trying to influence US immigration law, now claiming it to be something the WMF does "routinely". These statements do not belong on the WMF website. (Also, there is no longer any way to inform people responsible for the site about errors, like "do not write you own bio". Or the fact that the header is in German, despite saying that the page is in English.) Is there any intention to have somewhere where edits can be at least proposed? -- Yair Rand 2018-08-01 21:51 GMT-04:00 Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

...

Pine W

5:16 a.m.

Hi Greg, thank you for the update. The bold visual design is interesting. Hopefully WMF's target audiences will like it. I have a couple of concerns. This is not intended as an attack, and please try not to take this personally. 1. I am a bit uncertain about the appropriateness of asking affiliates and volunteers to spend valuable time translating WMF's corporate website. I am not sure that it is a request that I would make if I was in WMF's place. WMF has plenty of funding that could be used for that, and I think that affiliate and volunteer translator time would be better spent on content translation. Is there a reason to ask volunteers to spend their valuable time doing something that paid translators could do? 2. The section on "Key information - things to know" should be carefully examined by people who know Wikimedia policy and practices well. There are several places where that section needs additional work. 3. I partly share Yair's concern about the advocacy section. I have mixed views about some of WMF's public policy positions, while I fully agree with others. I suggest removing the word "routinely" unless WMF intends to become more active than it has been in the past with advocacy efforts that may be "non-core" with respect to WMF's mission, and I suggest that WMF should consider how to communicate that its own positions may or may not be representative of the positions of affiliates and contributors. I'm busy with other issues so I probably won't spend much more time thinking about the WMF website in the near future, but I thank you for your well-intentioned efforts to modernize the site. Hopefully in the long run all will be well. Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

Gregory Varnum

5:19 a.m.

There is a page on Meta-Wiki with a talk page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_website There is also a Phabricator project: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimediafoundation.org/ -greg _______________ Sent from my iPhone - a more detailed response may be sent later.

...

On Aug 1, 2018, at 7:56 PM, Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote: The new website highlights "Advocacy" as one of the three areas that the Foundation deals with, along with Research and Technology. From the page linked, it promotes the WMF's misguided and unauthorized venture into trying to influence US immigration law, now claiming it to be something the WMF does "routinely". These statements do not belong on the WMF website. (Also, there is no longer any way to inform people responsible for the site about errors, like "do not write you own bio". Or the fact that the header is in German, despite saying that the page is in English.) Is there any intention to have somewhere where edits can be at least proposed? -- Yair Rand 2018-08-01 21:51 GMT-04:00 Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

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Mario Gómez

10:13 a.m.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

James Salsman

3:08 p.m.

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 2:13 AM, Mario Gómez <mariogomwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Completely agree. But given that there is no sign of WMF willing to keep advocacy within its core mission, I would like to know where can we propose and discuss advocacy areas? There is a number of issues that affect the work of Wikimedians that would need to be prioritized. Best, Mario _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Itzik - Wikimedia Israel

4:43 p.m.

Hi Gregory, I just looked quickly at the new site, which is a very refreshing change, and I'll send later more detailed feedback... But I must say I really like the leadership page: https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/leadership/ Not from a design, content or functional point of view, but because I suddenly noticed that most of the leadership team were women, which made me really proud. It's so not obvious. J *Itzik Edri* Chairperson itzik(a)wikimedia.org.il +972-54-5878078 On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 4:51 AM, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Isarra Yos

4:51 p.m.

Is there any way for us (others outside the team) to file bulk tasks/apply fixes to this? Is the source in gerrit/tasks tracked in phabricator, or is it somewhere else? -I On 02/08/18 01:51, Gregory Varnum wrote:

...

Subhashish Panigrahi

5:26 p.m.

Wow. Really impressive, modern and colorful. The type look quite bold and the overall flow is pleasant. The theme somehow felt a bit like Mozilla sites as well (in a good way). Congratulations comms. <3 Subhashish On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 7:21 AM, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Jeremy Lee-Jenkins

8:11 p.m.

I like it. I do feel the Wikimedia foundation is diverging from it's previous role as custodian of Wikipedia, and becoming a international advocacy group. I feel this change is welcome and will help develop the Creative Commons mission beyond just Wikipedia and it's sister sites. I take it the design of the site is CC-BY-SA-4.0, this is nice since it allows others to copy the design. Overall it's an improvement from the previous site. Warm Regards Jeremy Lee-Jenkins On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Subhashish Panigrahi <psubhashish(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

French,

German, Russian, and Spanish - in addition to the English version soft launched today. Once the translations are completed, we will be doing a more public announcement regarding the new website and begin more

formally

implementing usage of it. Additionally, we will be holding office hours in the coming weeks. What about the old website? The old website (aka Foundation Wiki) will be given new life in the

coming

weeks as the Wikimedia Foundation Governance Wiki - where it will

continue

to house important documentation for the Wikimedia Foundation like policies, board resolutions and minutes, legal documents, etc. Additional information on the changes coming to that wiki and the plans for

migrating

archived content to Meta-Wiki will be available in the coming weeks. What else should I know? There is a lot of great things about this new website we are excited to share with all of you! More information about office hours will available in the coming weeks. Until then, we encourage you to take a look and contact me directly if you find any bugs, typos, or have any comments. Thank you! The Communications department greatly appreciates all of the discussions, work, and patience everyone has put into this gigantic undertaking. We

are

very close to the finish line, and today marks a significant step which

was

only possible with the help of the 100+ people involved. On behalf of the Communications department and core website team

(Heather,

Zack, Katherine, Mel, and Greg), -greg ------- Gregory Varnum Communications Strategist Wikimedia Foundation gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org Pronouns: He/Him/His _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Adam Wight

3 Aug 3 Aug

12:49 a.m.

Nice work! I checked on my own face on the staff page and would like to request two changes: Please change my name to "Adam Wight", the longer name was silly. Also, please change the image to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adam_Roses_Wight.jpg , I donno why it was reset to the missing image. Thanks, Adam On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:51 PM Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

MZMcBride

1:42 a.m.

Gregory Varnum wrote:

...

After many months of work by over 100 individuals around the organization and movement, the Wikimedia Foundation's new website soft launched this week! You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/

The English home page inexplicably has German text at the top. I'm super-confused how nobody has noticed or fixed this yet, given how prominent it is on the page. It's also now been there long enough that Google search results are including it. Woof. It's very sad that the Wikimedia Foundation Inc. communications department unilaterally decided to move away from MediaWiki to WordPress. And in the process, your team made the site a lot less accessible to edits and changes. Many people, including employees of Wikimedia Foundation Inc. and volunteers, repeatedly raised objections to this decision to move to WordPress and they were ignored. I think this type of behavior by the communications department is really inappropriate, unbecoming, and inconsistent with Wikimedia's values. I also agree with Yair Rand that the focus on "Advocacy" is misplaced. MZMcBride

MZMcBride

3:24 a.m.

MZMcBride wrote:

...

Gregory Varnum wrote:

Ah, I see now. This is just some cruel waste of staff and volunteer time: <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200742>. You ask for people to point out issues, even providing a link to Phabricator Maniphest, and then gaslight them by closing the tasks and telling them that the very obvious bug is intentional. MZMcBride

Pine W

10:31 p.m.

Greg, while mentioning that there are talk pages and Phabricator tasks is fine, the issues and questions raised on this mailing list are on topic and not so specific that moving them off list seems necessary. I think that you should generally respond to questions and comments here if they were raised here. If the discussions become highly specific then yes moving them to talk pages or Phabricator could be better. MZMcBride, you may disagree with Greg on whether an issue is a bug or a feature, or whether a bug/feature is a good idea, but you could express that view in a way that assumes good faith unless evidence emerges to the contrary. Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

Andy Mabbett

11:12 p.m.

On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/

The home page currently says: " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons material. " That is not true. Material includes: * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc) * Fair-use copyright material. In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users. Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not be available under a free license in the United States because it is based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright under U.S. law." -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Yair Rand

6 Aug 6 Aug

7:06 a.m.

There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website: * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic Inc." is receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons used to track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data. * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at the bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this? * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias don't have teahouses or equivalents. * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information]]. * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the WMF describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for that matter. * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that belongs there. * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed to be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a more prominent position. "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally. In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of charge, in perpetuity." -- Yair Rand 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>uk>:

...

On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your

browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/ The home page currently says: " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons material. " That is not true. Material includes: * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc) * Fair-use copyright material. In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users. Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not be available under a free license in the United States because it is based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright under U.S. law." -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Chico Venancio

4:23 p.m.

Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and does not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for the new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/ <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> as being defined to not be a major site of WMF. * Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find it strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com. Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit? Best regards, Chico Venancio [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your

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Lodewijk

8:59 p.m.

I can imagine that this alternate privacy policy is actually covering a wider range of sites that are non-wiki, such as the fundraising infrastructure and the survey websites, voting websites etc. Rather than having a different privacy policy for each of those instances, I think it is actually clearer to have two policies: one for the content delivery (the 'wikis') that have practically zero cookie tracking to the best of my knowledge and one for the other websites that may require other methods to be functional. As a sidenote, I think it actually could be a totally fair statement to say that wikimediafoundation.org is, relative to the content projects, not a 'major site' of the WMF. It is supporting infrastructure at best. (no offense :) ) Lodewijk On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:23 AM Chico Venancio <chicocvenancio(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data. * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at the bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this? * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias

don't

have teahouses or equivalents. * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of

information]].

* "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the

WMF

describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for that matter. * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that belongs there. * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed

be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a more prominent position. "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally. In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of charge, in perpetuity." -- Yair Rand 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>uk>: > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org>

wrote:

You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Peter Coombe

8 Aug 8 Aug

4:12 p.m.

Hi Lodewijk, I'm not sure exactly what, if any, other sites this new privacy policy might cover. However I can confirm that the WMF fundraising infrastructure remains under the existing Donor Privacy Policy: https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Donor_privacy_policy/en Thanks, Peter -- Peter Coombe Fundraising Production Manager Wikimedia Foundation On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 at 20:00, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

...

the

new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/ <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> as being defined to not be a major

site

of WMF. * Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find it strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com. Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit? Best regards, Chico Venancio [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com>om>: > There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website: > * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic Inc."

> receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including > location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons

used

to > track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data. > * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at

the

bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this? * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias

don't

have teahouses or equivalents. * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of

information]]. > * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art,

and

UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the

WMF > describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for

that

> matter. > * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging > about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that

belongs

there. * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed

to > be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a

> prominent position. > > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage

people

> around the world to collect and develop educational content under a

free

> license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and > globally. > > In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation > provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework

for

the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of charge, in perpetuity." -- Yair Rand 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>uk>: > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org>

wrote: > > > > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your > > browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > The home page currently says: > > > > " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons > > material. " > > > > That is not true. Material includes: > > > > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc) > > * Fair-use copyright material. > > > > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our

users.

> > > > > > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page > > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not > > be available under a free license in the United States because it is > > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright > > under U.S. law." > > > > -- > > Andy Mabbett > > @pigsonthewing > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Shabab Mustafa

4:23 p.m.

I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly. What kind of visitor tracking are we using in this site? And if someone is not willing to be tracked, this site should load fully without breaking the styling. --- Shabab Mustafa T. @tarunno S. shabab.mustafa W. https://shabab.me On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:13 PM Peter Coombe <pcoombe(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

(the

'wikis') that have practically zero cookie tracking to the best of my knowledge and one for the other websites that may require other methods

be functional. As a sidenote, I think it actually could be a totally fair statement to

say

that wikimediafoundation.org is, relative to the content projects, not a 'major site' of the WMF. It is supporting infrastructure at best. (no offense :) ) Lodewijk On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:23 AM Chico Venancio <chicocvenancio(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth > noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only > applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and

does

not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for

the

new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/ <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> as being defined to not be a major

site > of WMF. * > > Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find

> strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces > visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either > privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com. > > Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit? > > Best regards, > Chico Venancio > > [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy > [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage > > > > 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com>om>: > > > There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website: > > * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic

Inc."

> receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including > location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons

used > to > > track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other

data.

> * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at

the > > bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this? > > * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit

The

> > Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias > don't > > have teahouses or equivalents. > > * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge".

See

[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of

information]]. > * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art,

and > > UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with

the

WMF > describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for

that > > matter. > > * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to

bragging

> about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that

belongs > > there. > > * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in

the

> > site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is

supposed

to > be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a

> prominent position. > > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage

people

> around the world to collect and develop educational content under a

free > > license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively

and

> globally. > > In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation > provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework

for > > the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other > > endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep > > useful information from its projects available on the Internet free

> > charge, in perpetuity." > > > > -- Yair Rand > > > > 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>uk>: > > > > > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear

your

> > > browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > The home page currently says: > > > > > > " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative

Commons

> > material. " > > > > That is not true. Material includes: > > > > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc) > > * Fair-use copyright material. > > > > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our

users. > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page > > > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might

not

> > > be available under a free license in the United States because it

> > > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright > > > under U.S. law." > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Mabbett > > > @pigsonthewing > > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Andy Mabbett

4:46 p.m.

On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.mustafa(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.

attolippip

5:28 p.m.

It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png Best regards, antanana On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.mustafa(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.

This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with AdBlockPlus enabled: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia… AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Gregory Varnum

11 Aug 11 Aug

3:34 a.m.

New subject: New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Hello, Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the Meta-Wiki page for this site: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch, and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for the full launch of the site. Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this site. -greg ------- Gregory Varnum Communications Strategist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org Pronouns: He/Him/His

...

On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:28 AM, attolippip <attolippip(a)gmail.com> wrote: It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png Best regards, antanana On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.mustafa(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.

Michael Peel

3:49 a.m.

New subject: New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Huh? it’s already been live at https://wikimediafoundation.org/ for the last week or so - that’s not a “soft launch”, that’s a full launch (maybe without the trimmings). Should I repost the comments/bug reports I sent to wmfcc-l last week more publicly? Thanks, Mike

...

On 10 Aug 2018, at 22:34, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: Hello, Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the Meta-Wiki page for this site: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch, and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for the full launch of the site. Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this site. -greg ------- Gregory Varnum Communications Strategist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org Pronouns: He/Him/His

On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.mustafa(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site properly.

Nathan

4:47 a.m.

New subject: New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Mike, the "soft" part of the launch is that it is available only in English, has not been heavily promoted and every link and reference elsewhere has not been transitioned. This info was in Gregory's initial post about the soft launch on the 1st. On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:50 PM Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

...

On 10 Aug 2018, at 22:34, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: Hello, Thank you to everyone that has sent in productive feedback and bug

reports! In the interest of having this conversation more transparently and succinctly, we have answered a number of questions on the talk page of the Meta-Wiki page for this site: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_website

We will continue to monitor feedback, address bugs during soft launch,

and let you know when the translations are in place and we are ready for the full launch of the site.

Again, thank you all for your patience during the soft launch of this

site.

-greg ------- Gregory Varnum Communications Strategist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org Pronouns: He/Him/His > On Aug 8, 2018, at 8:28 AM, attolippip <attolippip(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > It also does not seem to work correctly on mobile (android): > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMFnewsiteonandroidmobile.png > > Best regards, > antanana > > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 17:47 Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>

wrote:

> >> On 8 August 2018 at 15:23, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.mustafa(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I had to turn off my anti-tracking extension to see this site

properly.

>> >> This is how it appears for me, in Firefox (current version) with >> AdBlockPlus enabled: >> >> >>

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Screenshot_-_2018-08-08_-_Wikimedia…

>> >> AdBlockPlus is reportedly active on 100 million devices. >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Pine W

8:41 a.m.

New subject: New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

Greg, thank you for the update. Now would be a good time to correct the faulty information that's on the main page of the new website in the "Key Information" section. I have several more pointed thoughts, but I think that those comments would further alienate WMF people and you/they would react to my comments by being defensive instead of improving, so I'm stopping here for the moment. Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

a b

12 Aug 12 Aug

12:21 a.m.

New subject: New Wikimedia Foundation website has soft launched!

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

...

It would probably be best to file them in phabricator for improved tracking of the bug reports: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi…

Andy Mabbett

11 Aug 11 Aug

9:50 p.m.

On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/

The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites is available as Creative Commons material". This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource.

...

Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not be available under a free license in the United States because it is based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright under U.S. law."

This image is still on the pages I mentioned. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

a b

12 Aug 12 Aug

12:19 a.m.

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your

browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/

The home page currently says: " Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons

material. "

That is not true. Material includes: * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc) * Fair-use copyright material. In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users.

This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of issues compared to on the mailing list: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi…

Andy Mabbett

12:34 a.m.

On 11 August 2018 at 23:19, a b <cheeseyapacman(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

[Two outstanding issues with the new website]

...

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of issues compared to on the mailing list:

Thank you; no. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Andy Mabbett

21 Aug 21 Aug

9:01 p.m.

On 11 August 2018 at 20:50, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

...

On 3 August 2018 at 22:12, Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum <gvarnum(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > >> You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your browser's cache): https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > The home page currently says:

...

This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?

...

This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at WMF has even acknowledged my comment. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Antoine Musso

22 Aug 22 Aug

10:24 a.m.

On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?

This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

Hello, As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

...

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of issues compared to on the mailing list: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi…

To which you kindly replied:

...

Thank you; no.

Jane Darnell

10:55 a.m.

Wow. Just...wow. On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:24 AM Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

...

On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?

This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

Hello, As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking

issues compared to on the mailing list:

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi… To which you kindly replied:

Thank you; no.

So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account. Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list. -- Antoine "hashar" Musso _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Fæ

11:10 a.m.

Agree with Jane. Wow. For those unaware, Antoine Musso is a WMF Software developer, which you would never know based on their email signature. Hey fellow long-term unpaid volunteers. Remember that the WMF was created by us not that long ago, and had a single mission, to support us volunteers and our shared open knowledge mission? A drip, drip of "communication failures", along with the core Americanocentic obsession with hearing praise and ignoring critics must change, or we will all eventually take the hint that we are neither wanted or needed here, and find or establish a new and more rewarding place to have fun. Do we really need a revolution to flip the WMF upside down, or is there a better way to speedily reshape the WMF so it regains its focus on the outside world rather than the brilliance of its employees? Fae On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 at 09:55, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Wow. Just...wow. On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:24 AM Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it?

> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not > be available under a free license in the United States because it is > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright > under U.S. law." This image is still on the pages I mentioned.

And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

Hello, As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking

issues compared to on the mailing list:

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi… To which you kindly replied:

Thank you; no.

-- faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

Andy Mabbett

1:01 p.m.

On 22 August 2018 at 09:24, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

...

On 21/08/2018 21:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

>> The text I cited has now been changed to "All text on Wikimedia sites >> is available as Creative Commons material". >> >> This does not resolve the issue I raised above; as my first bullet >> point applies not only to media files, but also to numerous texts on >> Wikimedia sites; not least a large part of Wikisource. > This is still the case. When will it be fixed? Will it? > >>> Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page >>> and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not >>> be available under a free license in the United States because it is >>> based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright >>> under U.S. law." >> This image is still on the pages I mentioned. > And still is; over two weeks after I first pointed it out. No-one at > WMF has even acknowledged my comment.

...

As several people pointed out, the issues should be reported on Phabricator. As "a b" stated on August 12th:

If "several people" pointed this out, they did not do so on this list. perhaps you can provide a link to where they did so. Had I seen anyone point that out I would have commented then, as I do now, that that is not an acceptable position to take, for reasons which I'll leave as an exercise for the reader. I'll also note that a a member of WMF staff, using their wikimedia.org email address, has thanked people, in this thread, for feedback given /in this thread/.

...

> Please file the relevant tasks in phabricator to enable better tracking of > issues compared to on the mailing list: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/?tags=wikimedi…

You've quoted that unattributed, in manner (two chevrons) that makes it appear to have been said my me. In fact, it was said by a b <cheeseyapacman(a)gmail.com> on 11 August 2018 at 23:19

...

To which you kindly replied: > Thank you; no.

Indeed so; for the same reason as I indicated above, and as others have pointed out in this thread.

...

So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.

Were I to perform that redundant clerical task, perhaps they would.

...

Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.

That's rather an odd assertion, given that I posted a pointer to my last update on this list, here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_webs… being the talk page of a page Gregory Varnum has told us, in this very thread, to use for giving feedback. I note that Gregory has since edited that talk page, so can be presumed to have seen it; albeit he did not give a reply. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Antoine Musso

7:24 p.m.

On 22/08/2018 13:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:

...

So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.

Were I to perform that redundant clerical task, perhaps they would.

Until you do so, your concerns will stay under the radar on this list.

That's rather an odd assertion, given that I posted a pointer to my last update on this list, here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_webs…

Hello, I was merely suggesting that your reply on this list probably got forgotten somehow. Phabricator is tailored toward tracking an issue from its opening until its resolution. It is a great tool. My apologizes to have phrased that in a bad and harsh way :-\ I guess Gregory Varnum (and others involved in the project) do monitor the talk page. So you should get a reply there. -- Antoine "hashar" Musso

geni

3:07 p.m.

On 22 August 2018 at 09:24, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

...

So your concerns will be acknowledged once they make their way to Phabricator. You can login there with your wiki account.

This would be the site who's privacy policy says

...

Because we believe that you shouldn’t have to provide personal information to participate in the free knowledge movement, you may:

...

Read, edit, or use any Wikimedia Site without registering an account.

Okey cheap but is does display at certian lack of attention on your part. The problem is you are asking us to learn our way around yet another bit of software in order to raise issues. Not just learning how to submit but also how to navigate around to see what is going on. Sure I'm tech savy and I can work it out if I need to (although I don't see how to zoom into tickets from this page without subscribing to them https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/wikimediafoundation.org/ ) but its another barrier to entry, another bit of software I need to keep track of. -- geni

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participants (24)

a b
Adam Wight
Andy Mabbett
Antoine Musso
attolippip
Chico Venancio
Fæ
geni
Gregory Varnum
Isarra Yos
Itzik - Wikimedia Israel
James Salsman
Jane Darnell
Jeremy Lee-Jenkins
Lodewijk
Mario Gómez
Michael Peel
MZMcBride
Nathan
Peter Coombe
Pine W
Shabab Mustafa
Subhashish Panigrahi
Yair Rand