Hi Galder,
I have been reading the back and forth between you and Lauren, and I think we are making
a mistake by using two completely different pages audiences to use as a reference.
I don't think the account you reference has the same audience as the Wikipedia page,
so it would be a mistake to use whatever metrics to make assumptions or make absolute
statements. As long as the audience is different, there will be very different metrics,
and the so-called industry metrics are not the holy grail.
In other to make informed comments about any account metrics we first have to know what
kind of metrics they are collecting and what success looks like regardless of each metric
collected.
Vanity metrics like they say in this day and age is not all that social media managers
are looking for when they managing pages.
As a social media manager likes and engagement may not mean anything to me but probably
conversions will and this may not fully show in the metrics because those may not be the
channels we are using to measure conversions.
Industry standards are changing on a regular as far as managing social media accounts are
concerned.
Thank You.
Regards,
Justice.
On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 3:51 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder158(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Lauren,
That's plainly false: the "industry standard" you are using to measure is
not related to Twitter engagement measure, because one uses impressions and the other
followers. So comparing one measure to the other is not posssible, and we can't claim
that we are above industry standards with the data you are providing.
You can skip this conversation, you can report to whoever you want, but you can't
claim that the numbers are correct, because that is false.
Sincerely,
Galder
2022(e)ko abu. 2(a) 17:24 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson
<ldickinson(a)wikimedia.org>)g>):
> Hi Galder,
>
> Respectfully, we use [Twitter's definition of engagement
rate](https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/using-the-tweet-act….
Over the last 28 day period, the Wikipedia account garnered a 3.0% engagement rate. On
[
Meta-Wiki](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_en…,
I previously shared several resources that confirm this is above industry standards, as I
thought you were asking as a point of interest. The conversation, since, steered into an
'[apples and
oranges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges)'
comparison of two different accounts with different strategies, audiences, and goals.
>
> Again, we will be discussing our social media strategy with members of the Wikimedia
communities on the Communications Committee in the near future. For this discussion, I
believe it has become circular and detracts from our important work. I hope we can leave
things at a place of respectful agreement (or disagreement).
>
> Lauren
>
> Lauren Dickinson (she/her)
> Senior Communications Manager
> [Wikimedia
Foundation](https://wikimediafoundation.org/)
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 4:32 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
<galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello again,
>> A couple of weeks ago this conversation[was moved to
Meta](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_engagem….
There Lauren, from the Social Media team provided a couple of numbers to show how
@Wikipedia handle on Twitter is doing "above the industry standards". The
problem is that this numbers are plainly false. The team is dividing the number of
interactions by the number of impressions, instead of the number of followers, that is
what the metric was asking for.
>>
>> I have asked there for the exact data on impressions, in order to calculate the
real impact, but once the team has seen that their numbers are wrong, they are using
distraction tactics in order to bury the problem.
>>
>> So, as moving it to Meta seems like a move to forget about this, I would like to
discuss the topic again. Can someone in the WMF provide the number of interactions we had
in the last 28 days so we can see if, indeed, we are "above the industry
standards"?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Galder
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 1:55 PM
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter
>>
>> I'm glad this conversation is moving over to meta-wiki. I hope the
communications staff will recognize their job should be to facilitate the volunteers to do
the work when it comes to anything other than speaking for the Foundation.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 2:22 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
<galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Lauren, I have followed there, because I think we are measuring two
very different things when talking about engagement.
>>>
>>> Have a good day
>>> Galder
>>>
>>> 2022(e)ko uzt. 18(a) 19:48 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson
<ldickinson(a)wikimedia.org>)g>):
>>>
>>>> Hi Galder, I just left a more detailed reply on
[
Meta-Wiki](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_en…
so we can continue the conversation there. In summary, we refer to a few different sources
to benchmark our engagement rates on @Wikipedia. According to [Rival
IQ](https://www.rivaliq.com/blog/social-media-industry-benchmark-report/), the median
Twitter engagement rate for brands across all industries is 0.037%; for nonprofits
specifically, it is 0.054%. According to
[
Adobe](https://www.adobe.com/express/learn/blog/what-is-a-good-social-media…,
"most would consider 0.5% to be a good engagement rate for Twitter, with anything
above 1% great." @Wikipedia Twitter's engagement rate, according to [the
dashboard](https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/using-the-twee…
we access when logged-in to the account, over the last 28 day period is 2.7%. In May and
June, it was 2.6% and 2.2%, respectively. I hope the resources shared are helpful for your
management of @euwikipedia.
>>>>
>>>> It's difficult to draw direct comparisons between the @euwikipedia
and @wikipedia accounts due to the difference in follower size and our more global focus,
as well as the objectives we are prioritizing to support the movement but also build
resonance among groups who can help us to push forward our knowledge equity goals. At the
same time, a straight comparison—with the understanding that I cannot see the analytics
for the @euwikipedia account—reveals more retweets, likes, and comments on the @Wikipedia
account. I'd like to better understand however if we are defining engagement
differently. Also, an overall higher engagement rate from Twitter's analytics could be
a result of the [low base
effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_base_effect)
(comparing two accounts of different sizes).
>>>>
>>>> Please note that I am managing a family commitment this week. I am happy
to continue this conversation on
[
Meta-Wiki](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_en…
when I return.
>>>>
>>>> Also, Andy, we will follow up this week regarding your
[
questions](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Twitter) about the
@WiktionaryUsers and @Wiktionary accounts. We do not currently have access but are
exploring potential options via Twitter now.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, all, for your comments.
>>>>
>>>> Lauren
>>>>
>>>> Lauren Dickinson (she/her)
>>>> Senior Communications Manager
>>>> [Wikimedia
Foundation](https://wikimediafoundation.org/)
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 5:16 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
<galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the answer, Lauren. I see quite a few interactions with
the tweets (despite having more than half a million followers). You say that the
engagement is above the industry standard. Is there any data we can use to compare?
I'm one of the managers of @euwikipedia and I see we have even more engagement than
@wikipedia, so I would like to know which are those industry standards, so we can also
measure ourselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Galder
>>>>>
>>>>> 2022(e)ko uzt. 14(a) 00:56 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren
Dickinson <ldickinson(a)wikimedia.org>)g>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi again — thanks for these comments!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to add that we very regularly refer to the ITN/DYK
sections (and OTD, too) when planning out the content calendar and responding to current
news and topics. These are great, natural sources of topic inspiration for the Wikipedia
channels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As mentioned, we welcome other ideas for articles / topics to
share. I understand that the form may not always be the best way to do this. So, I invite
you to share ideas and feedback on
[
Meta-Wiki](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media) (we just did a light clean
up of the page). I am also a member of the Facebook group (Wikimedia social media hub)
that Andy shared; I see most posts, but the form and Meta-Wiki are the best way to reach
me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For additional perspective, based on the note from Galder, there
are currently two staff, including myself working on digital communications strategy at
the Foundation, which includes both the Wikimedia and Wikipedia social accounts, as well
as our website and blogs. Across all, we prioritize showing up with a consistent voice and
identity, so through association, people understand our work better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our strategy is global and we try hard to give equal weight to
topics that reflect the diversity of our world and movement—keeping track of movement
happenings, edit-a-thons, user group initiatives, current events, and trends in places
across the world. Rather than focusing on putting out a large quantity of content, our
goal with each post is to make people understand the diverse work that the movement does
and the diverse range of knowledge that can be discovered on Wikipedia. This fosters
understanding with those who may not have deep knowledge of how the movement works and
what we stand for, but who may want to join us if they did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition to our regular content, we must be constantly
vigilant and address potential misunderstandings about our work and projects. We monitor
social chatter closely and strive to ensure that our content and replies meet the
standards that uphold movement values. We track the metrics and impact of our social media
efforts and find that our strategy is working well. For example, over the last year, we
saw a 7% increase in Wikipedia's Twitter following and a consistent above-average
engagement rate when compared to industry standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, I'll note that we are planning to discuss our
refreshed digital communications strategy with
[
ComCom](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee) in the coming months.
It includes lessons gleaned over the last two years on how to position community work so
that it reaches the right audiences and helps to advance movement goals. One of our
focuses is on better amplifying the work of volunteers in the movement, and we are eager
to get reactions / ideas on ways we can do this even more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope this is all helpful context and information. Thanks again
for sharing your ideas and feedback with us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lauren
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lauren Dickinson (she/her)
>>>>>> Senior Communications Manager
>>>>>> [Wikimedia
Foundation](https://wikimediafoundation.org/)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 4:24 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
<galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the answer, Lauren.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been looking at the stats of the last 4 weeks in
Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, to make an idea of the activity those accounts have. I
don't know how many people takes part in the process, but as I read "We" in
the answer, I'm going to assume that is more than one person to do all of this job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Twitter, before my e-mail (after that there was a tweet by
Wikimedia Chile that was mentioned by @Wikipedia), the last tweet was two days before.
From June 10th to July 10th 34 tweets were done, 5 of them about the concept
"tea". That makes roughly one tweet a day, but there have been many days without
any tweet activity. In Facebook I count 24 posts related to Wikipedia. This is 0,77 posts
per day. In Instagram the situation is worse, only 9 posts in one month, is to say, one
every 3 days. It could be that June 10th to July 10th is a bad moment, but I have looked
up previous months, and the trend is the same: most of the days is 1 tweet, there are some
days with 0 activity, and some other days with 3-4 tweets, usually about the same topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know how long it takes to do that, but based on
my experience managing social media, this activity (a tweet a day, 0,7 posts in Facebook a
day and 0,3 posts in Instagram, that actually are about the same topic) takes around 30
minutes per day, a little bit longer if I need to take extra-extra care to choose the
article. I don't know how many workers are in this process, but I assume that the
"we" means than is more than one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me help with this, because there are many processes that
can booster the activity and make our engagement in social media better. In the French
Wikipedia they have a page where people can propose tweets about curious things
(
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Aide_et_accueil/Twitter/Tweets). These tweets are
shared with the hashtag [#WPLSV](https://twitter.com/hashtag/WPLSV).
[
Viquipedia](https://twitter.com/Viquipedia/) is another success story, with a great
engagement (far better than the @Wikipedia account, by the way).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the Basque Wikipedia account
(
https://twitter.com/euwikipedia) we have an internal shared spreadsheet where we put in
the columns the days and in the rows the scheduled time for the tweet. Every day (yes, we
have only one time zone, what makes things easier) we try to open with two "on this
day". This is extra easy, because you only need to look to the article about the day
and choose some that may be interesting or round numbers (100 years ago today...). Then we
try to tweet every day something about science, then social sciences or history, a
building, a fiction or artwork and we end the day with a third "on this day"
that may be more curious. We have two extra time sections reserved for news about
Wikipedia itself (statistics, wikiprojects, featured content...) and something related to
news of the day/current events. We also tweet about sex whenever we have new content every
Friday at 23:59. This makes around 8 tweets a day, with some extra options if we have
something extra to tell, or there is an important recent death, etc... Is true that we are
not posting in Facebook or Instagram, but this is a task we do when we have spare time in
our regular jobs: we don't have any extra worker to manage them. It takes around 4-5
hours to make a full schedule for a month (and it would take less in English Wikipedia,
where there's plenty of content), and then around 8-10 hours to schedule the ~250
tweets we make a month.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you need help to manage the Twitter account, don't
hesitate on contacting other members of the community. We can help with this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Galder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 8:37 PM
>>>>>>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
<wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in
Twitter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 at 01:23, Samuel Klein
<meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1, not just en:wp. I'd love to see community mods
involved in maintaining the core social accounts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a Facebook group (not the ideal venue, but it works
for those
>>>>>>> of us on that site), "Wikimedia social media hub"
[1], for that; but
>>>>>>> WMF staff decided to cease their involvement about 18 months
ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikisocialmediahub
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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Regards
Justice Okai-Allotey
Acting Program Manager [Wikimedia Ghana User
Freelance Photographer
Freelance Digital Marketer
Mobile: +233 (054) 039 4970 Skype: okai_allotey
|Avenger - [Urithi
"Our lives begin to the end the day we become silent about things that matter"
- Unknown.