Being that it was a topic of rousing discussion here last week, Wikimedians may be interested in a brief summary of the Omidyar/Wikimedia/Wikia connection, as authored by me and published by the non-profit, Internet Review Corporation:
http://akahele.org/2009/08/omidyar-venturing-out/
Hoi, I started reading and find that I should not have bothered... So if you have time to waste, by all means read this. Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/1 Gregory Kohs thekohser@gmail.com
Being that it was a topic of rousing discussion here last week, Wikimedians may be interested in a brief summary of the Omidyar/Wikimedia/Wikia connection, as authored by me and published by the non-profit, Internet Review Corporation:
http://akahele.org/2009/08/omidyar-venturing-out/
-- Gregory Kohs _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi, I started reading
I'm sorry, did you have something to say that *wasn't* a waste of time? I did read it, and unlike your e-mail it provides a useful perspective in a large and complicated issue.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:23 PM, BrianBrian.Mingus@colorado.edu wrote:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi, I started reading
I'm sorry, did you have something to say that *wasn't* a waste of time? I did read it, and unlike your e-mail it provides a useful perspective in a large and complicated issue. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I started reading Gerard's e-mail and then find that I should not have bothered.
In all seriousness, allow me to echo Brian on this. It may not be your opinion on the matter, but Gregory is certainly allowed to share his and doesn't need to suffer a berating on foundation-l for expressing it.
-Chad
Once again I have to ask, this time in a different forum... Is there any procedure to get those vicious personal attacks taken out of the publicly viewable history?
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
Once again I have to ask, this time in a different forum... Is there any procedure to get those vicious personal attacks taken out of the publicly viewable history?
I am gobsmacked that you are asking this here and saying that you haven't received answers when you asked in a different forum (which forum?).
Removal of vicious personal attacks depends on the nature of them.
If they are potentially libelous, suppression[1] can be used. In other cases, "poor mans oversight"[2] is often used by admins and oversight volunteers.
1. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Oversight 2. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Poor_man%27s_oversi...
-- John Vandenberg
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:14 PM, John Vandenbergjayvdb@gmail.com wrote:
I am gobsmacked that you are asking this here and saying that you haven't received answers when you asked in a different forum (which forum?).
Removal of vicious personal attacks depends on the nature of them.
If they are potentially libelous, suppression[1] can be used. In other cases, "poor mans oversight"[2] is often used by admins and oversight volunteers.
- https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Oversight
- https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Poor_man%27s_oversi...
-- John Vandenberg
How do those apply to a mailing list?
Nathan
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Nathannawrich@gmail.com wrote:
How do those apply to a mailing list?
Eh? Anthony is talking about removing messages from the mailing list archive?
I assumed he meant the Wikipedia diffs that are mentioned in the article at http://akahele.org/2009/08/omidyar-venturing-out/
Hopefully he will be more clear about the vicious personal attacks he is referring to.
-- John Vandenberg
Hoi, This is the Foundation-l not the Wikipedia-en list. Applying policies of one project is rather arbitrary. Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/2 John Vandenberg jayvdb@gmail.com
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
Once again I have to ask, this time in a different forum... Is there any procedure to get those vicious personal attacks taken out of the publicly viewable history?
I am gobsmacked that you are asking this here and saying that you haven't received answers when you asked in a different forum (which forum?).
Removal of vicious personal attacks depends on the nature of them.
If they are potentially libelous, suppression[1] can be used. In other cases, "poor mans oversight"[2] is often used by admins and oversight volunteers.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Poor_man%27s_oversi...
-- John Vandenberg
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, This is the Foundation-l not the Wikipedia-en list. Applying policies of one project is rather arbitrary.
I (correctly) assumed that Anthony needed guidance to the oversight-l list to deal with an En.Wp problem, so I pointed him to the applicable policy page on the applicable project.
I could have pointed him to the meta policy page, but that page is a lot of unnecessary reading for someone who wants to know how to request oversight on En.Wp.
-- John Vandenberg
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Gregory Kohsthekohser@gmail.com wrote:
Being that it was a topic of rousing discussion here last week, Wikimedians may be interested in a brief summary of the Omidyar/Wikimedia/Wikia connection, as authored by me and published by the non-profit, Internet Review Corporation:
Thanks Greg. This is a useful and fairly even-handed piece. I feel like your nitpicking of whether the seat was "bought" or whether there is a "tie" is (pardon the phrase, literature people) just semantics. What Halprin essentially asserted in the interview with Andrew Lih was that the grant was not conditional on Halprin being seated on the board (or retaining his seat after his current appoint ends at the end of the year). He didn't deny that, in a social rather than contractual sense, he was considered for a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations; in fact, he basically said that he and/or Omidyar Network expressed interest in a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations, and as you show, that's pretty typical of the way that Omidyar Network interacts with non-profits.
I don't see anything that either Halprin or WMF has said about seat and the grant as evidence of duplicity.
And I dare say that you would avoid the word "bought" too if both your sister and your $2 million benefactor thought that word had misleading negative connotations.
-Sage
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Sage Ross <ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.comragesoss%2Bwikipedia@gmail.com
wrote:
[Halprin] didn't deny that, in a social rather than contractual sense, he was considered for a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations; in fact, he basically said that he and/or Omidyar Network expressed interest in a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations, and as you show, that's pretty typical of the way that Omidyar Network interacts with non-profits.
He said that? Where has Halprin or anyone with knowledge of the appointment said that Halprin was considered because of the grant negotiations? Where has anyone even acknowledged that there were grant "negotiations"? What was being negotiated? What were the other offers?
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Sage Ross <ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.comragesoss%2Bwikipedia@gmail.com
wrote:
[Halprin] didn't deny that, in a social rather than contractual sense, he was considered for a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations; in fact, he basically said that he and/or Omidyar Network expressed interest in a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations, and as you show, that's pretty typical of the way that Omidyar Network interacts with non-profits.
He said that? Where has Halprin or anyone with knowledge of the appointment said that Halprin was considered because of the grant negotiations? Where has anyone even acknowledged that there were grant "negotiations"? What was being negotiated? What were the other offers?
See http://wikipediaweekly.org/2009/08/28/episode-82-matt-halprin-interview/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikipediaWeekly/Wikimania_2009/Halpri... (transcript of one section of the interview).
Halprin said: "But I think that at this point in time, I think what Sue would say is, that even if Omidyar Network hadn't gotten involved, once she got to know me that she would have actually said: hey, this is someone who could be helpful for us at this point in time." What's implicit is that Omidyar Network did, in fact, get involved and that's why Foundation people got to know him well enough to decide that he should be added to the board.
What was being negotiated was terms of the grant, at the least; as the Q&A says, there are targets that WMF has to fulfill in receive the full grant. From the interview, it also seems that discussions were geared toward figuring out how much WMF and Omidyar Network had in common in terms of goals and whether Halprin's expertise was needed or would be helpful on the board. And I imagine they discussed what kinds of things the WMF might want to spend a few extra million on.
-Sage
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Sage Ross <ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.comragesoss%2Bwikipedia@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
He said that? Where has Halprin or anyone with knowledge of the
appointment
said that Halprin was considered because of the grant negotiations?
Where
has anyone even acknowledged that there were grant "negotiations"? What
was
being negotiated? What were the other offers?
See http://wikipediaweekly.org/2009/08/28/episode-82-matt-halprin-interview/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikipediaWeekly/Wikimania_2009/Halpri... (transcript of one section of the interview).
Halprin said: "But I think that at this point in time, I think what Sue would say is, that even if Omidyar Network hadn't gotten involved, once she got to know me that she would have actually said: hey, this is someone who could be helpful for us at this point in time." What's implicit is that Omidyar Network did, in fact, get involved and that's why Foundation people got to know him well enough to decide that he should be added to the board.
The timeline is unclear to me. I was under the impression that Halprin met the board before the grant was discussed. To say that "Halprin was considered because of the grant negotiations" implies that he wouldn't have been considered were there no grant negotiations. To me Halprin is saying the opposite in that quote above.
If Omidyar Networks had not offered a grant, but offered to put Halprin on the board, would the board have accepted it? I don't see anyone with knowledge of the situation saying no.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
If Omidyar Networks had not offered a grant, but offered to put Halprin on the board, would the board have accepted it? I don't see anyone with knowledge of the situation saying no.
I had the impression that WMF had been courting Omidyar Network for some time; it's hard for me to imagine that a potential grant wasn't part of the context right from the beginning. But indeed, we're mostly speculating here.
-Sage
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Sage Ross <ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.comragesoss%2Bwikipedia@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Anthonywikimail@inbox.org wrote:
If Omidyar Networks had not offered a grant, but offered to put Halprin
on
the board, would the board have accepted it? I don't see anyone with knowledge of the situation saying no.
I had the impression that WMF had been courting Omidyar Network for some time; it's hard for me to imagine that a potential grant wasn't part of the context right from the beginning. But indeed, we're mostly speculating here.
From a board report: "On August 15, invitations went out for the San
Francisco Funders' Briefing to be held at Kapor Enterprises on September 23, 2008. Current confirmed guests include representatives from the Stanton, Moore and Gates Foundations as well as representatives from the Omidyar Network, and individual prospective donors."
The Q&A says "The two organizations have been talking since shortly after the Wikimedia Foundation relocated to San Francisco from St. Petersburg, Florida in January 2008."
I've reread what you said, though: "he basically said that he and/or Omidyar Network expressed interest in a seat on the board because of the grant negotiations". I guess that's fairly safe to say.
And on that, I guess my quota for the day for this thread is filled.
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