If someone states that something is unclear, they very obviously intend
“unclear” to apply to their perception of it.
For example, I just used the words “very obviously.” That is my perception,
my opinion, what I gathered from the information available to me. Should I
note “it is my opinion that...” before every adjective I use?
Regardless, it would be beneficial to civil discourse if you focused on
addressing the arguments of those who disagree with you rather than
attacking them personally and the method in which they put forward their
ideas, especially when it results in such unnecessary (see, my opinion
again) semantics such as this. This also applies to your: “I hope the
moderators are considering moderation for several posters beyond Dan.”, the
message of which was fully clear and not constructive.
Best,
Verm
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 15:25 Paul J. Weiss <pjweiss(a)uw.edu> wrote:
To expand on the last part of my previous post, one of
the things that
Peter and other posters are doing that is problematic in my eyes is
phrasing their opinions as fact. It is quite clear to me why Dan was put on
moderation. So it is a false statement to say that "this is patently
unclear". I believe that opinion should be stated as such. When I see
opinion being spun as fact, I am less interested in reading the rest of
such a message, and that writer loses credibility in my eyes.
Paul
--------- Original Message ---------
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review
From: "Peter Southwood" <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>
Date: 9/11/20 4:20 am
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
In that case, can we please have an explanation of exactly how the relevant
text was found to be inappropriate, as this is patently unclear, and
apparently the reason for all this debate. I have my own speculation, but
as
it is speculation, it would be inappropriate to publicise unless there is
no
official explanation.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf
Of Asaf Bartov
Sent: 11 September 2020 11:46
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review
No, it is not "forbidden words" that are the problem, and we have no
intention of maintaining a list.
We expect list subscribers to maintain civil discourse, which does include
avoiding vulgarity, and expressing oneself with respect to both one's
interlocutors (or addressees of criticism) and the broader audience.
Happily, this is something more than 99 percent of subscribers manage to do
without effort.
As I have repeatedly clarified, respectful discourse absolutely does not
preclude criticism. Indeed, it is liable to make the criticism more likely
to be heard.
A.
On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 12:26 Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>
wrote:
Is there somewhere we can refer to the list of
offensive and unacceptable
expressions, and how they are determined?
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf
Of Anders Wennersten
Sent: 11 September 2020 10:33
To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review
There are many of us on this list who have given the feedback we find
that expression offensive and unacceptable.
Do not forget the readers of this list comes from may different cultures
and if you and the people close to you find it "acceptable" it is not a
valid judgment for all, and why do you want us to leave this list just
so you can use a language like that. (I certainly would if that was
accepted as a norm)
The language on this list is English, it means we non-native have to
adjust our entries to a unfamiliar language. It mean we have to limit
our means of expression (we will not be experts on nuances). You who
are native English speaker have all the advantages, would it then be too
hard for you to adjust you language to what is acceptable to us others?
Anders
Den 2020-09-11 kl. 09:31, skrev Benjamin Ikuta:
>
> Please, enlighten me.
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 11:39 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Am Fr., 11. Sept. 2020 um 08:07 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Ikuta
>> <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>> Is there some context that makes this much worse than it seems, or do
I
have a deeply flawed understanding of civility?
> Well, are you open to consider the
possibility that the latter might
> theoretically be the case, at least partially?
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
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