[Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation Website

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Anthere

3 Aug 2004 3 Aug '04

8:51 p.m.

http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home Is the address of the new foundation website. It is currently totally a work in progress. Angela has been working on a nice html home page, so it look good later on, but it is not in place yet. I set a new menu yesterday and put some pages already. We need your help to participate :-) If you feel like it, you are most welcome :-) For now, only loggued-in user can work on it, and only sysop can create an accout. If you wish an account to update or improve the pages, please ask Angela for the next weeks. We reserve the right to refuse access, but we wish to give it pretty liberally :-) Any access given by Angela will be okay by me while I am away. Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is protected. We need your help so that this site appears decent. Thanks in advance :-) ant

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Yann Forget

3 Aug 3 Aug

11:03 p.m.

Hi Anthere, Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :

...

I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and to be member of the Press Team. Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

Anthere

4 Aug 4 Aug

4:51 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Yann Forget a écrit:

...

Hi Anthere, Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :

I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and to be member of the Press Team. Yann

Ton login est Yann. Envoi toi un nouveau mot de passe. ant

Anthere

5:02 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Anthere a écrit:

...

Yann Forget a écrit:

Hi Anthere, Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 13:51, Anthere a écrit :

I would like to help translate the foundation web site into French and to be member of the Press Team. Yann

Ton login est Yann. Envoi toi un nouveau mot de passe. an t

En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.

Yann Forget

5:38 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Le Tuesday 03 August 2004 22:02, Anthere a écrit :

...

http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home Is the address of the new foundation website.

What structure was decided regarding languages? What will be the home page in French f.e.? How are done links to other languages?

...

En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.

9:33 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ . Then /wiki/en/Home or /wiki/de/Home, perhaps. Or even /en/Home and /de/Home, as long as that allows for non-wiki pages to neatly fall into the directory structure. ~sj~ On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:38:25 +0200, Yann Forget <yann(a)forget-me.net> wrote:

...

What structure was decided regarding languages? What will be the home page in French f.e.? How are done links to other languages?

En fait, Angel a été plus rapide que moi.

Yes. ;o) Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

-- :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+

Brion Vibber

9:44 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Sj wrote:

...

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ .

Ugh, flags. No thanks. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Timwi

9:47 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Brion Vibber wrote:

...

Sj wrote:

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ .

Ugh, flags. No thanks.

Word.

9:58 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:44:13 -0700, Brion Vibber <brion(a)pobox.com> wrote:

...

Sj wrote:

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ .

Ugh, flags. No thanks.

That's not what I meant... and there's a lot more not to like about it than flags (bright orange?? bordered buttons?). However, it doen't include navbars in the portal, and manages to fit seven languages onto a screen, unlike our own portals (all of which, btw, are EN-centric; cf. http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks_portal). -- :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+

Anthere

4:03 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

So much as I would like this site to be multilingual, I must say I disagree with you in this case Sj. What you suggest is interested for meta probably (but the flags), but The Foundation is american, and the language used is english, so it is really okay that the portal page is in english. I essentially wish that other languages are available for most, if not all pages. And I wish that every reader see this is available. But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to english language. Btw, I do not think that all pages will be necessarily translated :-) so our solution should include that when a page is not available, then there is a switch back to english (or a "we are sorry" message on top, with the english version below). ant Sj a écrit:

...

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:44:13 -0700, Brion Vibber <brion(a)pobox.com> wrote:

Sj wrote:

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ .

Ugh, flags. No thanks.

Daniel Mayer

4:54 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Anthere, you of all people should know that the foundation is global. The fact that it is incorporated in the United States is not really relevant. Jimbo and I have recently exchanged emails about this very topic and we want to form a U.S. chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation in part to demonstrate this distinction. Thus a language-selection portal would be appropriate and expected for the foundation website. Not having it right away is simply due to the lack of a technically and aesthetically good implementation. A side benefit of creating such a portal would be adapting it for use at www.wikipedia.org and other www wikimedia project domains. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Delirium

5 Aug 5 Aug

7:19 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Daniel Mayer wrote:

...

Thus a language-selection portal would be appropriate and expected for the foundation website. Not having it right away is simply due to the lack of a technically and aesthetically good implementation. A side benefit of creating such a portal would be adapting it for use at www.wikipedia.org and other www wikimedia project domains.

Unless we can get everyone translated accurately pretty quickly, we might want to still give English primacy as the language in which Foundation business is conducted. This wouldn't be related to where the Foundation is incorporated, just due to the fact that if we were to list all languages that members understand at least somewhat, English would almost certainly come out ahead by far, and it's the language most commonly used for cross-borders business these days outside of Wikipedia as well. (If at some point it turns out that everyone learns Esperanto, I'd be happy to move to that; or if people learn Latin again, we could move back to using Latin as the international language of correspondence, but for now it seems English has more speakers than any of the alternatives). Of course, instant high-quality translations would be even better, but especially for sensitive things we have to be careful that the translations actually all capture the same nuances of meaning. -Mark

Anthere

8:42 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Delirium a écrit:

...

Daniel Mayer wrote:

Nod. I agree with this. I prefer english, at least for now. But I think that if some people have strong opinion one way or another, I will be glad to settle on the leading opinion, portal or english per default.

Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales

7 Aug 7 Aug

2:26 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Delirium wrote:

...

Unless we can get everyone translated accurately pretty quickly, we might want to still give English primacy as the language in which Foundation business is conducted.

Yes, this is particularly true where there is something "official" or "business" related. --Jimbo

Timwi

4 Aug 4 Aug

8:32 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Anthere wrote:

...

But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to english language.

I'm disappointed! :)

Anthere

5 Aug 5 Aug

8:45 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Timwi a écrit:

...

Anthere wrote:

But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to english language.

I'm disappointed! :)

Well... I think Mark gave a perhaps better explanation of why I think that english should be priority language on that wiki site. But, if you wish, I can say that if anyone would feel like making meta main page a language portal, I *strongly* agree with it :)

Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales

7 Aug 7 Aug

2:25 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Anthere wrote:

...

But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to english language.

I don't want to disagree with Anthere, but I did want to add that I always think of the foundation as being international and located in the U.S. only due to me happening to live here. I think that however we do approach the homepage issue (I have no strong opinion), we want to make sure not to be any more English-centric than absolutely necessary for whatever reasons. --Jimbo

Anthere

14 Aug 14 Aug

4:37 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales a écrit:

...

Anthere wrote:

But for an american foundation, it makes sense to give priority to english language.

Either way, I'll settle to what people are more confortable with :-) In short, the first one to draft a gorgious home page for the website will have my agreement :-)

Walter Vermeir

7 Aug 7 Aug

6:47 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Sj wrote:

...

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ . Then /wiki/en/Home or /wiki/de/Home,

This is the best portal page I have seen yet; http://europa.eu.int/ Clean. No flags, no menu that is flying around, language code + native text Works also very well whit lynx This is also not bad http://www.esperanto.net/ but Europa.eu.int is better. -- [[w:nl:gebruiker:walter]]

Daniel Mayer

4 Aug 4 Aug

3:15 a.m.

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

...

http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home Is the address of the new foundation website.

I'm confused. In the meeting we decided to have it at wikimediafoundation.org. That will happen when the website goes live, right? If this is the plan, then I support that, but your post was not clear on this point. Full HTML support is also still needed. Until then I really can't work on donation pages for that website.

...

Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is protected.

If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not be enough to ensure security. That is unless only protected pages will support full HTML. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Anthere

4:59 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Daniel Mayer a écrit:

...

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

http://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Home Is the address of the new foundation website.

You are correct. We agreed that the adress would be wikimediafoundation, in particular for domain names issues. I must remember we have to contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you do or do not please. I suppose that once the www.wikimedia.org will be a little bit more organised and MOSTLY when it will support the fundraising page, we will remove the current site at wikimediafoundation.org and move the other one. Till then, we'll have to have two sites in order to support the fundraising page :-)

...

Full HTML support is also still needed. Until then I really can't work on donation pages for that website.

I agree.

...

Some areas will be restricted later on (for example financial reports will be protected) and editable only by sysop. For now, nothing is protected.

If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not be enough to ensure security. That is unless only protected pages will support full HTML.

I did not remembered that subtility. Well, if protecting ALL pages requiring HTML is required for security, we could protect all of them I guess. Which pages do you think will require HTML ? ant

Daniel Mayer

7:17 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

...

.... I must remember we have to contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you do or do not please.

I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I would prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct those negotiations.

...

I suppose that once the www.wikimedia.org will be a little bit more organised and MOSTLY when it will support the fundraising page, we will remove the current site at wikimediafoundation.org and move the other one.

Nod. Another thing that should happen is applying the skin that Angela has been working on.

...

I did not remembered that subtility. Well, if protecting ALL pages requiring HTML is required for security, we could protect all of them I guess.

I don't think it is currently possible to set HTML support based on whether or not a page is protected. But that would be a very useful thing to have for the foundation website since then we would not have to worry as much about just who we allow to have accounts. Another idea would be to have full HTML support only on templates (if coding such a thing would be easier to set per namespace). Then HTML support could be restricted via namespace instead of protection status. I'm pretty sure that MediaWiki can already set access permissions based on namespace.

...

Which pages do you think will require HTML ?

A set of fundraising pages and also various forms, such as signing up to be a member or assigning copyright to the foundation, etc. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Anthere

9:02 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: WFM : need fluent german :-)

Daniel Mayer a écrit:

...

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I must remember we have to contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you do or do not please.

I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I would prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct those negotiations.

Well, paying them for something they paid and could give us appears fair :-) OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

Arne Klempert

5:45 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: WFM : need fluent german :-)

On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:02 AM Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Daniel Mayer a écrit:

--- Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

.... I must remember we have to contact the current owner. Would you perhaps do it Mav ? Tell us if you do or do not please.

I could, but they will likely want us to pay for the domain name. I would prefer if somebody who speaks German fluently could conduct those negotiations.

Well, paying them for something they paid and could give us appears fair :-) OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

I'll try to contact her. -Arne (akl)

Arne Klempert

9:24 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: WFM : need fluent german :-)

On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:45 AM Arne Klempert <wikipedia(a)klempert.de> wrote:

...

OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

I'll try to contact her.

I sent her a mail (see below). If she doesn't respond until friday I will try to reach her by phone. -Arne (akl) On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:20 PM Arne Klempert [wikimedia] <akl(a)wikimedia.de> wrote:

...

Sehr geehrte Frau Rohrer, ich wende mich an Sie, weil Sie die Domain wikimedia.com reserviert haben. Vielleicht kennen Sie die freie Internet-Enzyklopädie Wikipedia (wikipedia.org). Dieses Projekt hat es sich zum Ziel gesetzt, ausschließlich durch die Arbeit freiwilliger Autoren Enzyklopädien in allen Sprachen der Welt zu erstellen und ist seit dem Start im Jahre 2001 diesem Ziel schon sehr nahe gekommen: mittlerweile existieren fast eine Million Artikel in über 80 Sprachen, darunter über 300.000 in englischer und über 100.000 in deutscher Sprache. Getragen wird dieses Projekt von der Wikimedia Foundation (eine gemeinnützige Stiftung mit Sitz in Florida, USA). Derzeit versuchen wir, die Außendarstellung von Wikimedia auszubauen, um besser um Spenden für den Betrieb der Wikipedia und ihrer Schwesterprojekte werben zu können. Denn das Angebot soll auch in Zukunft kostenfrei nutzbar sein und ohne Werbung finanziert werden. In diesem Zusammenhang hätten wir großes Interesse an der von Ihnen registrierten Domain. Wikimedia verfügt bereits über die Domain wikimedia.org. Leider ist die Endung .org aber für viele Internetnutzer sehr ungewohnt, und es kommt erfahrungsgemäß häufig vor, dass ungewohnte Endungen durch .com ersetzt werden. Zudem bauen wir derzeit eine internationale Organisationsstruktur auf (in Deutschland wurde bereits ein Verein gegründet: http://wikimedia.de - andere Länder folgen in Kürze), so dass auch aus diesem Grund eine Erreichbarkeit von Wikimedia unter allen verfügbaren Endungen besonders wichtig ist. Wir würden uns deshalb sehr freuen, wenn Sie bereit wären, uns die Domain wikimedia.com zu übertragen. Der Dank von unzähligen freiwilligen Mitarbeiter der verschiedenen von Wikimedia geförderten Projekte wäre Ihnen sicher. Sofern Sie dies wünschen, setze ich mich auch gerne dafür ein, dass Ihnen durch die Registrierung entstandene Kosten ersetzt werden. Für Rückfragen stehe ich jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung. Viele Grüße Arne Klempert * Freiwilliger Mitarbeiter bei Wikipedia * Zweiter Vorsitzender des Vereins Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens

Timwi

9:36 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: WFM : need fluent german :-)

Arne Klempert wrote:

...

I sent her a mail (see below).

Wow. Very good writing, very professional tone, and very well-structured paragraphing. I'm impressed! Thanks for your effort! Timwi

Anthere

5 Aug 5 Aug

8:38 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: WFM : need fluent german :-)

Thanks a lot Arne :-) ant Arne Klempert a écrit:

...

On Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:45 AM Arne Klempert <wikipedia(a)klempert.de> wrote:

OKay, is there a german person willing to contact the owner of http://www.wikimedia.com/ ?

I'll try to contact her.

Brion Vibber

4 Aug 4 Aug

9:03 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Daniel Mayer wrote:

...

Such restrictions would be really really unreliable. I would not recommend it. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Angela_

5 Aug 5 Aug

3:11 a.m.

mav wrote:

...

If the whole website will be HTML-enabled, then page protection alone will not be enough to ensure security...

If HTML only on certain namespaces, or for protected pages only isn't possible, and we can't limit the editing to trusted people only, what other solution do we have? Shall we retain the current system which allows certain pages to be exported from HTML even though that involves someone with shell access adding new pages like this? In theory, it shouldn't be much of an issue. The number of pages that we need HTML for are very limited - basically the fundraising page and membership application form - so once they are created, it would no longer need shell access. It would just need someone who knows HTML to edit the site. This isn't as good as having HTML on the wiki where you can see how it renders straight away, or as having a mixture of HTML and wikitext would be, but if the option simply isn't available, I don't think we should delay creating the new site while we wait for it to be possible. We have to work with the tools available now, and unfortunately that does mean editing isn't as easy as it normally might be. Yann wrote:

...

What structure was decided regarding languages? What will be the home page in French f.e.? How are done links to other languages?

I think it is going to be possible to use interlanguage links that point to pages within the same site. Sj wrote:

...

I would love to see a simple "pick your language" portal, a la http://www.easyjet.com/ .

I would rather this directed to the right page based on the language settings in your browser rather than forcing you to choose a language. Angela.

Anthere

8:40 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Website

Angela_ a écrit:

...

I would rather this directed to the right page based on the language settings in your browser rather than forcing you to choose a language. Angela.

Why do I have the feeling this is just a repeat of a two year old discussion with The cunctator ? Hmmm, why would I be necessary redirected to french language even if I do not want to ? ant

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29 comments

11 participants

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participants (11)

Angela_
Anthere
Arne Klempert
Brion Vibber
Daniel Mayer
Delirium
Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales
Sj
Timwi
Walter Vermeir
Yann Forget