It's not irrelevant because if approved, it could be added to list of
pending name changes.
As far as codes representing macrolanguages, ku: is clearly a different
situation than ar.wp. Arabic is a group of languages with a single unifying
"macro" standard, which speakers of all Arabic languages learn in school.
Every speaker of any Arabic language - Iraqi, Egyptian, Lebanese, Moroccan,
etc. - will readily agree that Modern Standard Arabic is part of their
cultural and linguistic tradition. For this reason, the situation makes
sense.
This is decidedly not the case with ku. Unlike with ar.wp, there are 5
different languages with more or less equal status. There is no "Modern
Standard Kurdish". Imagine if Modern Standard Arabic didn't exist, and
Moroccan Arabic Wikipedia was housed at
domain.
This would be unfair to other Arabic languages, would it not? Well, this is
the situation with Kurdish languages at the moment.
: interface and mainpage and all content in Zazaki
language (which may or may not be a Kurdish language)
: Kirmanjki
Now, as White Cat already mentioned, it is simply not neutral for us to
imply, by housing the Kurmanji Wikipedia at the language code for "Kurdish",
that Kurmanji is the 'default' Kurdish, when this is not the case. In fact,
Sorani is the only variety of Kurdish that has official status in any
country, being the co-official language of Iraq. Also, in comparison with
your case (re:Arabic), Modern Standard Arabic (used at ar.wp) *is* the
'default' Arabic. So this is not a parallel situation and should not be
treated as such, and a technical backlog is no reason to ignore it.
2011/9/16 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
Hoi,
The argument for or against using
ku.wikipedia.org are interesting but at
this time rather irrelevant.There is a long list of pending name changes
waiting to happen. Also we are quite happy to keep codes that are in fact
representing macro languages like ar or Arabic.
Thanks,
GerardM
2011/9/16 とある白い猫 <to.aru.shiroi.neko(a)gmail.com>
Hi all,
It is proposed that Kurdish (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language
)
wikipedia (ku.wikipedia) be renamed to Kurmanji wikipedia (kmr.wikipedia)
as
currently ku.wikipedia predominantly hosts a single dialect which is
Kurmanji dialect of Kurdish. Local community oppose the proposal so far.
I'd like to explain some background behind the proposal. Kurdish
wikipedia
had been hosting multiple dialects since its
creation. The three main
dialects (in terms of article count) have been Zazaki (1.5-2.5 million
speakers), Sorani (5 million speakers) and Kurmanji (9 million speakers).
Zazaki is only mentioned here because it was hosted by Kurdish wikipedia
at
some point. Zazaki's language family is
controversial as some sources put
it
as a dialect of Kurdish while others disagree with this. While details
surrounding the linguistic properties are irrelevant for this proposal,
the controversy itself is relevant.
Kurdish as a language has no standard from and the ISO considers ku (kur)
to
be a language code for a macro-language for multiple dialects.
Furthermore
said dialects are mutually unintelligible (per
first Google hit:
http://www.thefellowship.info/Missions/Global-Missions/People-Groups/Kurds
)
with multiple different types of scripts such as Sorani using rtl Arabic
script and Kurmanji using ltr latin script and are different in both
grammar
and vocabulary. In addition Sorani is the only dialect used officially in
north of Iraq by the Kurdistan Regional Government and is not the most
common dialect of Kurdish (according to Wikipedia anyways).
- Zazaki dialect separated from Kurdish Wikipedia on 5 January 2007
with
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Zazaki
and
had been steadily having an increase in article count and will
seemingly
> overtake ku.wikipedia soon enough.
> - Sorani dialect has seperated from Kurdish wikipedia on 14 November
> 2010 with
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Kurdish…
and
has steady contribution despite being a very recently created wiki.
- Minor dialects (in terms of article count) hosted by Kurdish
wikipedia
already have their relevant incubator pages
with Southern Kurdish
created
> on 29 October 2009 (
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/sdh)
> and Kirmanjki created on 30 July 2008 (
>
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kiu).
>
> Currently ku.wikipedia has very few tagged articles in non-Kurmanji
> dialects:
>
> -
http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taybet:WhatLinksHere/%C5%9Eablon:Soran%C3%AE6
> Sorani uses - There is a Sorani wikipedia
> -
http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taybet:WhatLinksHere/%C5%9Eablon:Bi_kurdiya_ba…
> Southern Kurdish uses - There is an incubator entry for Southern
> Kurdish
> -
http://ku.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taybet:WhatLinksHere/%C5%9Eablon:…
Zazaki uses - There is a Zazaki wikipedia
By keeping ku.wikipedia with its ku language code we are:
- Implying Kurmanji as the "official" dialect of Kurdish with the
Kurdish
macro-language code
- Implying Sorani as the lesser dialect when in fact it is the only
official one.
- Implying Zazaki to be a Kurdish dialect which Zazaki community
opposes fiercely as evident in closed language proposal of Zazaki of
2007.
- Confusing the reader whom visits ku.wikipedia only to find Kurdish
articles they cannot read unless they use Kurmanji dialect (only half
of
Kurdish speakers know Kurmanji if you add up
the numbers for all other
dialects).
- I'd like to highlight one remark from Sorani wiki proposal page:
"Even
though both "Kurmanj" and
"Sorani" are subgroups (accent) of Kurdish
language, they can cause of misunderstanding and misinterpretation for
people who speak the language with these accents to each other. This
can
> happen in different situations. For instance during regular
> conversations,
> or reading/understanding complex and professional contents.In general,
> "Kurmanj" and "Sorani" are not useful to each other since
> misinterpretation
> is so high while they are used in different places. --Marmzok 11 April
> 2009"
> - This is the problem the reader deals on an article by article basis
> unless
> they know the existence of Sorani wikipedia.
>
> Relevant meta discussion is here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Ku…
Might I remind that "The committee does not consider political
differences,
since the Wikimedia Foundation's goal is to
give every single person
free,
unbiased access to the sum of all human
knowledge, rather than
information
).
Therefore political arguments including the ones
in the meta discussion
are
irrelevant.
- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
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