About Txikipedia: the age range is 8-12, but is more 10-12 than 8-9. The problem is that
some of the writers are 8-9 years old, so their content is quite simple.
Basque language readers are concentrated in a narrow area. We are in two different states,
and three different education administrations, but we share a common curriculum and things
may be different from a school to another, but not so different as Alabama-London
(following your example).
When I read French Vikidia I think that most of the contents are still too difficult for
8-9 years old students, but French education system maybe more advanced in some issues. Or
it might be that Vikidia is centered in 8-13 years old, and 13 years old readers are way
better reading and understanding texts. Klexikon seems very suitable, but it's
logical, since it is written by educators, and not children or whoever wants to write.
When we make courses with university students who will be the next primary school
teachers, they write longer articles, but not necessarily better. The main goal there is
to explain things as easily as possible, and not granting anything for known. We advise
them to write shorter sentences, without dependencies and to explain all technical
concepts inline, if possible. Also, they normally add boxes of "did you know?"
so they can add a layer for curious children.
The last issue is accuracy. When you simplify a text, you might sacrifice accuracy, but
these shouldn't collide with truth/neutrality. A good example would be: "Nearly
all animals have a mouth, you have a mouth, so you are an animal. There are some animals
that don't have a mouth: sponges. You may know sponges from cartoon, and there they
have a mouth, but not in reality. Be aware that the sponge you use at home may be
human-made.". Well, this is an example from the article about animals that is both
correct and simple.
Best
Galder
________________________________
From: WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 3:56 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi,
I'm curious as to what level of reading skill you are writing this for and also what
level of understanding/adulthood.
I see these as two different issues and both are likely to vary sharply especially between
different countries with very different education systems.
A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very different
than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents of fourteen year olds
thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be thought appropriate or even bowdlerised
by parents of ten year olds in London.
In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the answer to
either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content?
Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use of jargon. To
my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia should be written in
plain English. I suspect other language versions have similar issues. Perhaps if we
focussed more on this we would make it easier for those who wish to create childrens'
versions.
Regards
WSC
On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 13:03,
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Small joyy: Txikipedia of the da(Neurodivergent Netizen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:13:33 -0700
From: Neurodivergent Netizen
<idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com<mailto:idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
<wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
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> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host
such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad
reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few
kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
And of course, any WMF-affiliated wiki would be more at-risk simply because of the
association with the more well-known Wikipedia.
The document is not really public yet. :-)
I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-)
From,
I dream of horses
She/her
> On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk
<zvandijk@gmail.com<mailto:zvandijk@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how
> we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
> private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
>
> Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
> <mathias.damour@gmx.fr<mailto:mathias.damour@gmx.fr>>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen"
<idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com<mailto:idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com>>
>> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project is
the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could potentially
increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly
aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites. Then you add
in the fact that kids are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and
it’s not worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so
you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and
identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids
editing the existing projects.
>>
>> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly.
>>
>> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet the
british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and
moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential
safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that
"America" weight more the right of parents to control what is taught to their
children and less the right of the children to inform themselves - the latter being upheld
by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate -
compared to other countries).
>> We reviewed it on
https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>>
> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host
such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad
reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few
kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
>>
>> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people
for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog
post :
>> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
>>
https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
>> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their closed
family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a wiki for children
is set (that we would need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to design
the project or to manage the community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the
wiki encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>>
>> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages :
>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>>
>> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
>> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga"
<galder158@hotmail.com<mailto:galder158@hotmail.com>>
>> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
<wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra step
nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you are underage.
Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult content easily.
We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at Commons, where you can find even
porn using words that were not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive
visits from children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic
direction says) is better that not providing at all.
>>
>> I can only agree!
>>
>>
>> Mathias Damour
>> [[User:Astirmays]]
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