2010/6/2 Mike Godwin <mnemonic(a)gmail.com>om>:
Yann Forget writes:
In addition, I receive a personal letter, as
"the main editor" of
these texts, according to Gallimard. We didn't receive any information
from the Wikimedia Foundation, and I know the details only because I
have been personally involved.
Yann seems to be suggesting here that the Wikimedia Foundation did not
notify him about the Gallimard takedown, but at the same time Yann
acknowledges that he knew about the Gallimard takedown. It is precisely
because we knew Yann knew about Gallimard's takedown demand (it wasn't a
"request") that we did not send him additional correspondence to inform him
about something he already knew about. I still have in my email storage
correspondence with Yann regarding this event from March of this year -- it
seems odd to have Yann complaining that he didn't know enough about it.
Furthermore, when we noted in the takedown who was demanding the takedown
(Editions Gallimard) *and we further listed their contact information* so
that francophone Wikimedians who disagreed with the takedown demand could
make their feelings known to Gallimard. We did this at the very beginning of
the takedown process, which we are obligated by international law to obey.
Now three months later, we didn't receive
any
information from the Foundation about this, and the texts are still
deleted.
Yann seems here to say that some unnamed group did not know about the
takedown. We posted the takedown information publicly. Yann in fact knew
about it from the beginning. What's more, we listened to Yann's feedback,
including claims that some of the material Gallimard demanded taken down was
material they had no right to make such demands about. We narrowed
Gallimard's takedown demand accordingly. Yann knows this.
I didn't know you narrowed Gallimard's takedown demand. AFAIK you
never informed me nor Wikisource about this.
Yet there are works which are in public domain in France and which are
still deleted in Wikisource following Gallimard's demand.
In fact, you didn't inform Wikisource about the details of Gallimard's demand.
I received Gallimard's letter only one month _after_ the works were
deleted on Wikisource.
I answered to Gallimard and I didn't receive any news from them.
I don't expect to receive anything from Gallimard since their FUD
tactic worked very well, and the works are not on-line any more on
Wikisource.
And I am not so foolish to ask Gallimard for objective information.
In fact Gallimard has made at least two mistakes in their request: one
of the author's date of death is false, and in one case, they
miscalculated the duration of copyright, forgetting the 30 years
extension for authors who died in action.
Many
contributors are obviously not very happy, and feel that
the Foundation submitted to the pressure of a commercial publisher.
Comparing with the National Portrait Gallery affair on Commons, it
looks like a double standard was applied.
I strongly suspect that any contributors who feel as Yann says they feel are
relying on mistaken information and assumptions. We absolutely did resist
the demands of Gallimard within the full extent that French law allows. We
retained French counsel who represented us in discussions with Gallimard,
and we forced Gallimard to make their demands both more specific and
narrower. The "pressure of a commercial publisher" played no role. (A
noncommercial entity making the same legal demand would be entitled to the
same takedown, assuming that the formalities were met.)
Happy to hear that. It would have been much better if you would have
informed the Wikisource community about it.
Comparing the National Portrait Gallery affair
suggests lack of knowledge
about the underlying copyright issues involved. The NPG dispute involved art
works that unquestionably were no longer protected by copyright according to
the law of most signatories of international copyright treaties. The NPG
actually knows this, and did not press any legal challenge, likely because
of uncertainty whether their anomalous theory of copyright protection for
digitized centuries-old artworks would be upheld even by British courts. The
Gallimard case is fundamentally different, since most of the works they
demanded taken down were asserted to be modern works that are clearly within
the period of French copyright protection.
Partly false, misleading at the minimum.
Some of the deleted works are in the public domain in France.
At least half of them are in the public domain world wide, except in France.
These are published on many web sites, including the National French Library.
Just a few days before these texts were deleted, I
asked Cary what was
the official opinion of Wikimedia Foundation
about texts which are in
the public domain in USA, but not in France. I was told that "the
community is entitled to decide by itself".
Cary is correct that the Wikimedia Foundation is not purporting to give you
legal advice about copyright and the public domain. We're not your
lawyers. For that, you are best served by consulting French legal counsel.
Well, I am now in India, so I am not sure how much French law in relevant.
Most of the deleted works are in the public domain in India.
Any way, you answered beside the point.
I know very well what is the copyright status of these works in
France, and elsewhere.
What I ask is that you inform _the Wikisource project hosted by
Wikimedia Foundation_ about _WMF official legal policy_, whatever is
that policy.
--Mike
Regards,
Yann