On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:54 AM, Denny Vrandečić <vrandecic(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Gnom1 on Phabricator has offered to actually answer
legal questions, but we
need to come up with the questions that we want to ask.
In the Phabricator discussion, Denny and others spent some considerable
effort to come up with the following questions (I am quoting below from
Denny's last post on Phabricator, dated May 26th):
---o0o---
Denny wrote on Phabricator:
So, given the discussion as it has been going, I hope that the following
questions sound good to everyone:
1. Can you comment on the practice of having processes that in bulk
extract facts from Wikipedia articles, which are published under CC-BY-SA,
and store the results in Wikidata, where they are published under CC-0?
1. Particular sets of facts we are interested in to consider would be:
a) interwiki links, b) facts extracted from infobox templates, c) facts
extracted from prose through natural language processing.
1. What, if anything, may be imported from ODBL licensed databases like
OSM into Wikidata, and republished under CC-0?
If I don't hear back by the mid of the next week, I'm going to raise these
as the questions we would kindly ask to be answered.
---o0o---
Given that more than a month has passed, have these questions actually been
answered?
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM Rob Speer <rob(a)luminoso.com> wrote:
> As always, copyright is predatory. As we can
prove that copyright is
the
enemy of science and knowledge
Well, this kind of gets to the heart of the issue, doesn't it.
I support the Creative Commons license, including the share-alike term,
which requires copyright in order to work, and I've contributed to
multiple
Wikimedia projects with the understanding that my
work would be protected
by CC-By-SA.
Wikidata is engaged in a project-wide act of disobedience against
CC-By-SA.
I would say that GerardM has provided an
excellent summary of the
attitude
toward Creative Commons that I've encountered
on Wikidata: "it's holding
us
back", "it's the enemy",
"you can't copyright knowledge", "you can't make
us follow it", etc.
The result of this, by the way, is that commercial entities sell modified
versions of Wikidata with impunity. It undermines the terms of other
resources such as DBPedia, which also contains facts extracted from
Wikipedia and respects its Share-Alike terms. Why would anyone use
DBPedia
and have to agree to share alike, when they can
get similar data from
Wikidata which promises them it's CC-0?
On Wed, 16 May 2018 at 21:43 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hoi,
> Thank you for the overly broad misrepresentation. As always, copyright
is
> predatory. As we can prove that copyright is
the enemy of science and
> knowledge we should not be upset that *copyright *is abused we should
> welcome it as it proves the point. Also when we use texts from
everywhere
and
rephrase it in Wikipedia articles "we" are not lily white either.
In "them old days" generally we felt that when people would use
Wikipedia,
> it would only serve our purpose; share the sum of all knowledge. I
still
> feel really good about that. And, it has
been shown that what we do;
> maintain / curate / update that data that it is not easily given to do
as
> well as "we" do it.
>
> When we are to be more precise with our copyright, there are a few
things
we could
do to make copyright more transparent. When data is to be
uploaded
> (Commons / Wikipedia or Wikidata) we should use a user that is OWNED
and
> operated by the copyright holder. The
operation may be by proxy and as
a
consequence there is no longer a question about copyright as the
copyright
> holder can do as we wants. This makes any future noises just that,
> annoying.
>
> As to copyright on Wikidata, when you consider copyright using data
from
> Wikipedia. The question is: "What
Wikipedia" I have copied a lot of
data
from
several Wikipedias and believe me, from a quality point of view
there
> is much to be gained by using Wikidata as an instrument for good
because
it
> is really strong in identifying friends and false friends. It is
superior
> as a tool for disambiguation.
>
> About the copyright on data, the overriding question with data is: do
you
copy data
wholesale in Wikidata. That is what a database copyright is
about. As I wrote on my blog [1], the best data to include is data that
is
corroborated by the fact that it is present in
multiple sources. This
negates the notion of a single source, it also underscores that much of
the
data everywhere is replicated a lot. It also
underscores, again, the
notion
> that data that is only present in single sources is what needs
attention.
> It needs tender loving care, it needs other
sources to establish
> credentials. That is in its own right what makes any claim of copyright
> moot. It is in this process that it becomes a "creative" process
negating
the
copyright held on databases.
I welcome the attention that is given to copyright in Wikidata. However
our
> attention to copyright is predatory in two ways. It is how can we get
> around existing copyright and how can we protect our own. As argued,
> Wikidata shines when it is used for what it is intended to be; the
place
that
brings data, of Wikipedias first and elsewhere second, together to
be
used as a repository of quality, open and linked
data.
Thanks,
GerardM
[1]
https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2018/05/wikidata-
copyright-and-linked-data.html
>
> On 11 May 2018 at 23:10, Rob Speer <rob(a)luminoso.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow, thanks for the heads up. When I was getting upset about projects
> that
> > change the license on Wikimedia content and commercialize it, I had
no
idea
> that Wikidata was providing them the cover to do so. The Creative
Commons
> > violation is coming from inside the house!
> >
> > On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 03:48 mathieu stumpf guntz <
> > psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > There is a phabricator ticket on Solve legal uncertainty of
Wikidata
> <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728>
that you might be
interested
> > to look at and participate in.
> >
> > As Denny suggested in the ticket to give it more visibility through
the
> > discussion on the Wikidata chat
> > <
> >
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#
> Importing_datasets_under_incompatible_licenses>,
> >
> > I thought it was interesting to highlight it a bit more.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
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