Hoi,
Peter we were celebrated when we received the Erasmus prize. It was a
joyous occasion and a clip was shown with children from Soweto explaining
what Wikipedia Zero meant for them. At the time we DID have statistics on
growth from Africa. We did know what growth was attributable to Wikipedia
Zero. We have continued to measure our performance so the answer is one
where someone with appropriate knowledgeable or skills looks at the
numbers, extrapolate a growth path and compare. Not really problematic.
What is problematic is for us to accept that our choices have
consequences. *Our
*maturity can be measured by our ability to know and accept the
consequences of our actions.
Contrary to some, I do think as an organisation we are doing quite well.
What we do is still biased and if we are to be less biased we have to both
ask for money and spend more money in Africa, South America and Asia. As it
is, European and North Americans have the expectation that they are
entitled because they pay for things. Fundraising in Africa, South American
and Asia may not be as "profitable" but the value we gain by asking people
to support *themselves *is of value in itself.
We could and should spend more where our potential impact is biggest. As it
is we do not even know the science that establishes or refutes what we have
in our Wikipedias. As it is we only know somewhat what we used as a
reference, hardly representative particularly when you broaden your
horizon. Oh and when will we have a formal register of organisations we
partner with like the Internet Archive?
Thanks,
GerardM
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 13:13, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>
wrote:
Gerhard,
I am also interested in what the impact of Wikipedia Zero was, but it is
not obvious to me how it would be measured.
The board members are unlikely to have personally researched this, but
might know if there is or was a project and if so what they are or were
trying to measure. Equally, someone from WMF might be able to report on
what has been or is being done in this regard. It is also possible that
nothing has been done, or someone who does not read this list is working on
it.
If anyone reads this and can enlighten us, either to whether it is an
ongoing project, has been done and the information is available somewhere,
or nobody is known to be working on it, please let us know.
Anyone who has ideas on how it could be measured or why it can't is also
welcome to comment.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
Sent: 01 December 2019 08:19
To: Lodewijk Gelauf; Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research
about the effects of its demise?
Lodewijk,
What I asked for is: do we understand what the impact was of the Wikipedia
Zero project. In the answer of James, a board member of the WMF someone who
could know, there is nothing that answers that question. All the answer
does is deflect the question to something else. A notion that it is "not
that bad because we have these other things". These things we had before
Wikipedia Zero, they are not Wikipedia and they do not scale.
What I have noticed is that once consensus has been reached, we do not want
to be confronted with the consequences of our actions. Wikipedia Zero has
damaged our outreach and what the BBC info reminds us of is that Internet,
the cost of Internet, is not comparable in Africa with what we are used to.
It means that we no longer reach the girls and boys in Soweto as we showed
in our film clip at the Erasmus award.
We do not cover Africa properly, we do not need to seek consensus about
this, that is easily to be shown. Our focus on outreach is in America, then
Europe, then the rest of the world and there is Africa. From the moment we
stopped Wikipedia Zero, we have invested heavily in infrastructure in
Africa, the organisational presence in the USA is now such that it rivals
Wikimania and is used as an excuse by some to even dismantle Wikimania. As
an organisation, a movement the "centre periphery" model is alive and well.
We happily embrace Burke's peerage in Wikidata and we balk at the fact that
covering science takes resources away from pet projects.
You tell me to be constructive and here I lay out what the situation is.
How can you be constructive as our movement does not support science, the
people who need our information most are disenfranchised because we do not
cover them, support them in an equal manner.
Thanks,
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 04:31, effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Gerard,
It would be great if you could keep a slightly more constructive tone in
your messages. On one hand, you seem genuinely interested to help access
to
free knowledge in Africa, but in your second
email, you seem to jump
(after
one response) to conclusions already. If you like
to get real responses
to
your emails, you may want to try a more
constructive attitude. For me, it
is at least sufficiently offputting to disengage (I removed the rest of
my
response/suggestions).
-- Lodewijk
On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:34 PM Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi,
Kiwix and off line Wikipedia did exist at the start of Wikipedia Zero.
It
is great that you brought some to Africa but you
do not scale and it is
not
> a study into the effects of what the effects are of terminating
Wikipedia
Zero.
No idea what "Starlink" is
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=starlink&s=l
but it is not a reality for a few more years..
It sounds like we have thrown all these kids under the bus but hey, we
have
> plan. A plan/action is having our own caches in Africa and providing
edit
> and read capabilities for all who care to
use it... and then measure
the
extend it
helps us recover from our Wikipedia Zero public.
Thanks,
GerardM
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 02:48, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> We have offline Wikipedia. I have shipped devices to Kinshasa, and
> they arrived :-)
>
> Of course they do not at all address the need for two way
communication.
> >
> > I am hoping Starlink will help when it comes online in a few years.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 12:19 AM Gerard Meijssen
> > <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hoi,
> > > The BBC shows how dramatically expensive internet is in Africa..
For
in
> my
> > opinion local political reasons Wikipedia Zero has terminated. That
is
ok
> > up to a point; the point being that we understand the consequences
from
> > > this action.
> > >
> > > Given that our data is NOT local, people have to pay a premium.
What
are
we
> going to do to compensate for expensive Wikipedia that replaced
Wikipedia
> > Zero? Did we study the effects or are we not interested in the
> consequences
> > of our actions?
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> >
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50516888
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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