Brigitte, I owe you and everyone else on this list an apology for bringing
English Wikipedia business here. This post was initially sent to multiple
lists, and it came through only on my Wiki-en-L tab, so I believed I was
replying there, not to Foundation-L.
This is, indeed, a discussion appropriate to our own project.
On 28 September 2010 20:25, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Tue, 9/28/10, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pending Changes development update: September
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 5:22 PM
On 28 September 2010 18:10, Birgitte
Without having formed in opinion either way to
has come out of the
trial or the straw polls, I don't understand
is such importance
placed on *technically* disabling the feature.
If en.WP doesn't want to use
it, why don't they not just move all the
Empty out the pending changes from the on-wiki
interface. This would likely
have to be done *before* disabling it anyways.
because the extension is
installed doesn't mean it has to be used. I
can see no
reason why Erik or
Danese should be being asked to determine
Nobody was asking Erik or Danese to determine consensus.
They were asked to
give their word that our consensus would be respected after
the polling of
the community following a second trial. Consensus doesn't
rule, as has always been very clear on this project.
It's now on record that any further trials are moot, and
that the tool is
going to be left in place with absolutely no intention of
regardless of the wishes of the project.
And how should they know what the consensus is which they should promise to
respect without determining it? They can't very well just turn off an
extension while it is use on hundreds of articles. If the consensus is so
clear (that Danese and Erik would not be required to make a judgment call)
that en.WP doesn't want to use Pending Changes, then why are en.WP users
*still using it*?
I get that this is an important political issue for
various people. I
don't get why the devs are being focused on.
Please let the devs out of the
argument. I can't imagine why any of them
to touch that button
with a ten-foot pole until you have clearly
decided. Especially as it isn't
really necessary for them to be involved in
a negative result.
The developers were being focused on because they have been
the face of this
project from Day One, and all communication with the
community has been
And since it has worked so very well, you think it best continue with that
Seriously, do whatever you want to about Pending Changes on en.WP. You are
complaining about WMF not respecting en.WP decisions. You don't need some
formal announcement of respect. Just make your own decisions without asking
WMF to approve. That is what real respect is. Is something you give to
yourself by having confidence enough in your decisions to move forward with
them. Asking others to promise to approve of your decisions undermines
respect. There is a giant gap between not interfering with a decision and
endorsing it. And respect is only about the former. WMF doesn't need and
shouldn't have to go around endorsing decisions made on each of the wikis.
In this aspect, en.WP has failed to mature to the level of most of the other
wikis for far to long. Self-governing means doing it yourself.
I don't think you realize how absolutely disrespectful tone of the entire
"en.WP wants to trial run an implementation of Flagged Revisions" has come
across to me as someone who is associated with other WMF wikis. From the
very beginning and still continuing with your recent posts; and I even edit
en.WP significantly. Do you realize the development man-hours that have
been put into adapting the extension to the very specific set of
requirements that en.WP demanded on having before you all were even willing
to even talk about whether you might permanently use it? And the entire
time you all constantly complained about what was taking the devs so long to
fulfill your detailed demands? (It was at some phases comparatively quick or
at the very worst normal) I frankly hope you all decide to stop using
Pending Changes and to forget about ever further testing it. Maybe then
some developer will find some time to work on Lilypond. Or *any* somewhat
way to do musical notation. I am not picky at all, because what there is
now is NOTHING. And that is Bug 189; as in it was the one-hundred and
eighty ninth bug placed on Bugzilla back in 2004. And even if not Bug 189,
there may more be time for one of the numerous other development issues
which is not even a blip on en.WP's political radar. Just hopefully, at the
very least, it will be something that can possibly be used somewhere else in
WMF land *in addition* to en.WP.
Here is a challenge for anyone else on the list who is as turned-off as I
am about how many of the en.WP editors have approached this whole issue from
Day 1: Let's make an effort only to respond to threads for the rest of the
year when we can provide examples of the issues from wikis other than en.WP.
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