I agree that they look like a very aggressive community, but why should an
entity so disconnected from everything there and immersed on a culture of
obscurantism and secretiveness be the one appropriate to intervene?
Especially skipping due process, with a very shady ban, as seems to have
been the case there.
Paulo
A quarta, 12 de jun de 2019, 14:51, Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com>
escreveu:
Because the English Wikipedia community is a garbage
fire, and is
hellbent on demonstrating that this week.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:16 AM Paulo Santos Perneta
<paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
And why do you think the WMF would be the proper entity to step in on
community issues related to the English Wikipedia?
Paulo
A quarta, 12 de jun de 2019, 13:46, Mister Thrapostibongles <
thrapostibongles(a)gmail.com> escreveu:
> Yaroslav,
>
> I think it's reasonably clear that the English Wikipedia community and
its
> community structures, such as its
Arbitration Committee, and processes
are
> not capable of maintaining a productive,
harassment-free environment
for
> the volunteer workers. For example, they
have consistently failed,
after
> several attempts, to handle the case of a
volunteer who used the word
> "Cxxx" about a fellow worker, and the community has agreed that telling
> others to "Fxxx off" is acceptable. These are symptoms of a
dysfunctional
> community, which tolerates behaviour that is
unacceptable in any
collegial
> working environment, and it is right that
the Foundation should step
in.
>
> Thrapostibongles
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 4:56 PM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > The point made by pretty much everyone is not that Fram should or
should
> > not be banned, but that the process in
this case should have
followed the
> > standard dispute resolution avenues,
More specifically, the case
should
> > have been communicated to the
Arbitration Committee, whose members
did
> sign
> > the non-disclosure agreement.
> >
> > This is different from the past cases when users were banned by WMF,
> since
> > in this case it was made clear the case is based on on-wiki open
activity
> > of Fram (and, specifically, only on the
English Wikipedia). The
on-wiki
> > activity is subject to the community
policies.
> >
> > To be clear, I am not a friend of Fram, and in the past supported
desysop
> on a
number of occasions.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:46 PM Amir Sarabadani <ladsgroup(a)gmail.com
> > wrote:
> >
> > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and things
Fram
> > has
> > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see
how
> fast
> > > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I
personally,
> > > don't know what happened so I
neither can support or oppose the
ban. As
> > > simple as that.
> > >
> > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a
community
> > body
> > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > > - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
> > > - They are trusted by the community
> > >
> > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but not
sure
> > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new.
> > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?)
based
> on a
> > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm
> waiting
> > > for
> > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't
> surprise
> > > me
> > > > at all.
> > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this
kind
> of
> > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia
> > Movement.
> > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com> escreveu no dia
terça,
> > > 11/06/2019
> > > > à(s) 05:45:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for this.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by the
unilateralism
> > and
> > > > > lack of transparency.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 <
techman224(a)techman224.ca>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively
dead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated that
they
> > > > weren't
> > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom
forwarding
> a
> > > > > concern to the office. [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that
"local
> > > > > communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own
> > > autonomous
> > > > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were no
> > complaints
> > > > > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the Bureaucrats
and the
> > > > Arbcom
> > > > > noticeboards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#User:F…
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticebo…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statemen…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Techman224
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Begin forwarded message:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> From: George Herbert <george.herbert(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> > > > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT
> > > > > >> To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office
S&T blocked
> English
> > > > > Wikipedia
> > > > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and desysopped,
for
> > unspecified
> > > > > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief
statement
here
> > > from
> > > > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than
that
normal
> > > > policy
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which
under
normal
> > > > > >> circumstances
preclude public comments.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented
they're
making
> > > > private
> > > > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication
channels, due
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has mellowed
IMHO
> into
> > > "Ok,
> > > > > >> responsible people following up".
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics
under
Office
> > > > actions,
> > > > > >> having done OTRS and other various had-to-stay-private
stuff
> > myself
> > > at
> > > > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target
is
most
> > > > unusual
> > > > > but
> > > > > >> not unheard of.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they
had
any
> > public
> > > > > >> comment, no reply as yet.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> -george william herbert
> > > > > >> george.herbert(a)gmail.com
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > > >> WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > > >>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > > > >
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> > > --
> > > Amir (he/him)
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