Hello everyone,

I agree with Butch and Gnangarra. We need to solve local conflicts first and then go for broader global collaboration. Volunteers are the fuel of Wikimedia, it's not a wise step to completely ignore volunteers from a particular region and start an affiliate covering those areas.

To Ankan and Aishik specifically,
Thanks a lot for your response. What you said is completely different from what we are experiencing right now in the local community here in Bangladesh. I'm seeing the local volunteer community including the admin panel being divided into numerous micro-groups and these groups are being engaged in multifaceted conflicts within themselves. In fact, executive members from Wikimedia Bangladesh have also been engaged in heated exchanges with several community members including a few admins in the last few weeks. There are numerous on and private offwiki social group incidents where the community members experienced these. The village pump of bnwiki itself is flooded with recent heated discussions. I'm mentioning Wikimedia Bangladesh here because I, myself have seen them being involved in conflicts with several local organizers. Since the formation of this user group is rooted in the local conflict in Bangladesh that involves Wikimedia Bangladesh also, I would request not to suppress the voice of local volunteers and try to find a solution locally that may involve perspective from experienced global contributors. But please don't flood the global mailing list and it's better to put an end to this user group discussion.

Being honest, Aishik is one of the most celebrated organizers in Bangladesh, anyone active here in the local movement would agree that. It is very weird that no one from Wikimedia Bangladesh noticed Aishik's user page and requested them to put down the "Associate Member" status if Aishik is not anyhow formally connected to this chapter. No local contributor would believe that no one from the local chapter noticed Aishik's user page before.

The contact persons of this user group are some of the most active organizers of Wikimedia Bangladesh. In fact, they have organized and worked hard for Wikimedia Bangladesh even more than the Executive Committee members, we haven't at least seen the Executive Committee members actively organizing anything in the local community in most cases. Local volunteers can ensure that it is quite unbelievable that the founders of this user group didn't discuss it with Wikimedia Bangladesh. I repeat it's not possible that they didn't discuss it with the local chapter here. There are two possible options. The first one is, the local chapter supported the decision of launching this user group even after knowing that it would create overlapping and conflict. And the second one is, they didn't support and let these people go as they wish (again, knowing that there would be a conflict). Since they are the most active organizers of Wikimedia Bangladesh, it's not impossible that there was a conflict between these two groups - the unstable situation in the local community also supports this possibility.

I don't think it's valid to directly tag any concern using words like "fictitious" and "blame on the basis of personal thoughts". There are tons of on and offwiki proofs that may support the idea that these "allegations" against Wikimedia Bangladesh are shared thoughts instead of just personal opinions. But I don't think it would be a good idea to present the evidence here since this is not the main topic in this thread (though it's very much relevant to study the background of the current global situation). The community came to know about an active trust and safety case against four of the bnwiki admins for target harassment from public discussions. In fact, in the bnwiki village pump, it has also surfaced that one or more people from these four admins have close relations with Wikimedia Bangladesh, and the chapter is directly or indirectly involved in the harassment incidents. According to my observation, these harassment incidents were some of the root causes behind the current unstable situation in the local community which has been brought globally via the formation of this user group.

Again, I agree with Butch and Gnangarra, we should not clog the global mailing list with local conflict issues and solve the local conflict first. It is better not to consider proceeding with the proposed user group and take some time to know and collaborate with the volunteers from all over the mentioned region, and solve the local complexities locally first. Before launching such an ambitious initiative, our colleagues from Eseap and other regions should be consulted and their opinions should be considered carefully. I hope that this discussion will come to a successful conclusion.

Regards,
Iftee

On Sat, 27 May 2023 at 09:15, Butch Bustria <bustrias@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Aishik,

The first action you need to make is to move the meta wiki page to Draft page and find a working name. Maybe Wikipedia Project West and Central Asia. 

ESEAP started as ESEA in 2014 during Wikimania London 2014 (Source: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ESEA_Meetup/MeetingMinutes) . I am not there as I was just starting my work in Singapore. The concept of a regional collaboration started 9 years ago when multiple countries agree to work on something, not one part of a country, not two countries, but four countries. Then on, all blood, sweat and tears to reach a consensus of 18 Wikimedia communities (plus 15 more we have to explore in the Pacific islands) to come together and reach an agreement to formally build an ESEAP regional hub.

We are open to collaboration but please start a bold confidence building measure to earn our trust.


To Movement Charter Drafting Committee,

Despite absence of an ESEAP person to the large committee, we humbly suggest that you finally settle the definition of user groups, advocacy groups, alliance groups, online project groups and all others to avoid any ambiguity as it creates confusion to partners and general public; unfair competition and tension amongst Wikimedians. We originally have charters before but now the terminology of a user group became insanely disorganized. Once it is drafted, it will be voted upon the general community anyways.


To Everyone,

The theme of Wikimania 2023 is Diversity, Collaboration, Future. We aim this year's event be another milestone for people to meet and do a similar experience Wikimedians in 2014 to form regional and thematic collaborations. We respect diversity but we discourage highly divisive discussions.


Kind regards,

Butch Bustria
Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific




On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:26 AM Aishik Rehman <aishikrehman@gmail.com> wrote:
To everyone,

Thank you for your continued engagement and valuable feedback regarding the establishment of the UG. We have carefully considered the concerns raised regarding the name and the inclusion of the ESEAP region. We are committed to addressing these issues and ensuring a conflict-free and effective user group.

Regarding the name, we understand the importance of avoiding possible conflicts and overlaps. We are open to considering a non-geographical name that better represents the collaborative nature of our user group. We welcome suggestions and input from the community in this regard.

In terms of the ESEAP region, we recognize the need for a balanced approach. We are also open to excluding the region if it helps mitigate conflicts and ensures effective collaboration. We seek serious advice and assistance from those with experience and expertise to help us navigate these considerations.

To Rafi, we appreciate your input, but we want to clarify that we have no links or conflicts with Wikimedia Bangladesh. Our focus is on building a user group that complements and collaborates with existing affiliates. Your concerns regarding Wikimedia Bangladesh are not relevant to the establishment and functioning of the WAP UG.

We invite all interested individuals to join us in finding solutions and shaping the future direction of the user group. Your insights, expertise, and assistance in making the UG conflict-free and effective are highly valued.

Thank you for your continued support and engagement.

Best regards,
Aishik Rehman
Volunteer, Wikimedians of the [?] User Group
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