I have read several threads on this incident including Fram and T&S
statement on the English Wikipedia but I find it difficult to draw any
reasonable conclusion as WMF has not officially says that Fram was banned
for the fuck ArbCom comment. I really do not think we'll be fair to WMF if
we conclude based on Fram's statement alone.
I am also aware that the office action has been override by one of English
Wikipedia's administrator. Even though Jimbo and others asked the user not
to do so.
This whole event is scandalous and I am sad this is happening at the time.
Isaac
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 7:28 AM Philippe Beaudette <philippe(a)beaudette.me
wrote:
Martian,
While it’s not something I could conjure up today, my time at WMF exposed
me to enough things that I could not have imagined prior to seeing them for
myself that I am unwilling to discount that such a situation could exist.
Philippe
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:25 PM Martijn Hoekstra <
martijnhoekstra(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Phillipe,
Can you imagine a hypothetical situation where it would have been
appropriate for this WMF office action to exist though - that is to say,
not serious enough to ban a user from any other wiki than en. and serious
enough to take direct action outside of the community?
I sure can't, yet here it happened. That means I also can't really
disqualify any other points that I can't imagine as surely false. Can
you,
from your personal experience reconcile what
happened here good enough,
so
that when you say you can't imagine, that
dismisses the issue? Or do you
maybe also have to suspend your judgement on what probably did or didn't
happen as you are also in the realm of "can't imagine" already?
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 04:35 Philippe Beaudette <philippe(a)beaudette.me>
wrote:
> Nathan writes:
>
> *“Why are WMF staffers so*
>
> *deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the*
*right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”*
I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly
shocked if a t&s staff member had indeed banned for saying that.
If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban
such
> as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different
teams
> (in my time, we would not have considered a
ban such as this without
sign
off from
the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if
the
> process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any
single
staff
member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority
alone.
Multiple levels of review exist in order to
ensure that ban reasons are
valid and appropriate.
Philippe
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these
things? I
> > have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100%
predicted
> the
> > entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF
staffers
so
> > deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the
> right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality
agreement
for
> nonpublic information (
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_inf…
> >
)
> > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on
the
> > > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us
to
> deal
> > > with sensitive, private information.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani <
ladsgroup(a)gmail.com
>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and
things
Fram
> > has
> > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see
how
fast
> > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I
personally,
> > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the
ban.
As
> > > simple as that.
> > >
> > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a
community
> > > body
> > > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > > > - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
> > > > - They are trusted by the community
> > > >
> > > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but
not
sure
> > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new.
> > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?)
based
> on a
> > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm
> waiting
> > > for
> > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't
> surprise
> > > me
> > > > at all.
> > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this
kind
> > of
> > > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia
> > > Movement.
> > > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Paulo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com> escreveu no dia
terça,
> > > > 11/06/2019
> > > > > à(s) 05:45:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by
the
> unilateralism
> > > and
> > > > > > lack of transparency.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 <
> techman224(a)techman224.ca>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively
dead.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated
that
> they
> > > > > weren't
> > > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom
> forwarding
> > a
> > > > > > concern to the office. [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that
"local
> > > > > > communities
consistently struggle to uphold not just their
own
> > > > autonomous
> > > > > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were
no
> > > complaints
> > > > > > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the
Bureaucrats
and
the
> > > Arbcom
> > > > noticeboards.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#User:F…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticebo…
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statemen…
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > Techman224
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Begin forwarded message:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> From: George Herbert <george.herbert(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> > > > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT
> > > > > >> To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office
S&T blocked
> > English
> > > > > > Wikipedia
> > > > > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and
desysopped, for
> > > unspecified
> > > > > > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief
statement
here
> > from
> > > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than that
normal
> > > policy
> > > > and
> > > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which under
normal
> > > > >> circumstances
preclude public comments.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented
they're
> making
> > > > > private
> > > > > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication
channels,
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has
mellowed
IMHO
> > into
> > > > "Ok,
> > > > > > >> responsible people following up".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics
under
> Office
> > > > > actions,
> > > > > > >> having done OTRS and other various
had-to-stay-private
stuff
> myself
> > at
> > > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target is
most
> > > > unusual
> > > > > but
> > > > > >> not unheard of.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they
had
any
>
public
> > > > >> comment, no reply as yet.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> -george william herbert
> > > > >> george.herbert(a)gmail.com
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > >> WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > >>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > > >
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> > --
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> > _______________________________________________
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