Nathan, I was responding to Lila's note to clarify that I had made the
decision to not discuss anything privately with any WMF employee. The
IRC discussion was referenced by Fae, so I sent a link to the
discussion so everyone could see what he was talking about; I will
absolutely stand by my words. I think it's very important for everyone
to understand that the WMF is not trying to directly control my
communication with the community and with WMF employees. These are all
Everyone who is encouraging me to stop posting on this thread seem to
be the people who were asking for the clarification of my role in the
first place. These people seemed to think this matter was urgent and
that we shouldn't wait any longer- much less for me to understand the
intricacies of those IRC channels- to get clarification. I was not the
person to bring up the IRC discussion, but once it was brought up, I
don't think many people would disagree that it was appropriate for me
to respond with my account.
We are all interested in hearing all sides of every story here, aren't
we? I'm starting to get the feeling that there are things that some
people on this list don't want *anyone* to discuss. After all, you
could simply ignore my messages or even filter them from your inbox,
if you are so inclined. This impression has been troubling me greatly.
Do you know that this is *precisely* what many on Wikipediocracy are
saying about this list? Are they right?
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Wil Sinclair
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this.
I'm assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the
following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the
person who said s/he revdeleted it in thinking that it had been
revdeleted in the previous few minutes. This is exactly why I prefer
public recorded forums. Now no one can go back to clear up the
confusion. For all I know, I might have to apologize for a
misunderstanding, and it would really suck if I somehow misrepresented
things and didn't have any opportunity to straighten things out.
Of course, it is entirely on me. I knew that the IRC channels weren't
logged, and that it was a bannable offense to log them (for those who
aren't familiar with IRC, this essentially means that you aren't
supposed to save conversations there; in most channels that's A-OK,
but on all of the most used wikipedia channels it seems to be
disallowed). Next time I have a concern, I will take it to wikimedia-l
or one of the other mailing lists. As this example also shows, one
can't be sure that the revs on a page within Wikimedia's wikis
themselves won't be redacted after-the-fact. I'm not expressing an
opinion about whether stuff should be redacted or on what grounds, but
I am asserting that it is possible to do so.
There is a discussion about this issue there, as well. It can be
followed at the link I posted earlier. Here's the last page of the
discussion that includes the comment above:
This is exactly why others have suggested that you slow down, and focus on
learning the basics of the Wikimedia projects and movements before jumping
into the hottest, most controversial issues. It takes time to develop the
understanding necessary to draw conclusions, especially in areas most
likely to erupt into drama and heated exchanges.
To wit, I don't believe it can even be determined if someone is logging a
channel, and many people (including Wikimedians) log all of their channels.
Several Wikimedia-related channels are publicly logged. Other channels
prohibit people from publishing logs.
It's also quite common knowledge that revisions can be deleted (by any
administrator, where they remain viewable by administrators) or suppressed
altogether (by users with Oversight rights). I think if you considered it
with a full possession of the facts, you would agree that this is good and
In any case, thank you Lila for your note! I appreciate that you have made
it clear you've seen the threads of the last few weeks and understand the
concerns that posters have described.
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