--- On Tue, 9/28/10, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pending Changes development update: September 27
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 5:22 PM
On 28 September 2010 18:10, Birgitte
SB <birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
Without having formed in opinion either way to
what
has come out of the
trial or the straw polls, I don't understand
why there
is such importance
placed on *technically* disabling the feature.
If en.WP doesn't want to use
it, why don't they not just move all the
articles back
to semi-protection?
Empty out the pending changes from the on-wiki
interface. This would likely
have to be done *before* disabling it anyways.
Just
because the extension is
installed doesn't mean it has to be used. I
can see no
reason why Erik or
Danese should be being asked to determine
consensus.
Nobody was asking Erik or Danese to determine consensus.
They were asked to
give their word that our consensus would be respected after
the polling of
the community following a second trial. Consensus doesn't
mean majority
rule, as has always been very clear on this project.
It's now on record that any further trials are moot, and
that the tool is
going to be left in place with absolutely no intention of
disabling it
regardless of the wishes of the project.
And how should they know what the consensus is which they should promise to respect
without determining it? They can't very well just turn off an extension while it is
use on hundreds of articles. If the consensus is so clear (that Danese and Erik would not
be required to make a judgment call) that en.WP doesn't want to use Pending Changes,
then why are en.WP users *still using it*?
I get that this is an important political issue for
various people. I
don't get why the devs are being focused on.
Please let the devs out of the
argument. I can't imagine why any of them
would want
to touch that button
with a ten-foot pole until you have clearly
decided. Especially as it isn't
really necessary for them to be involved in
achieving
a negative result.
The developers were being focused on because they have been
the face of this
project from Day One, and all communication with the
community has been
through them.
And since it has worked so very well, you think it best continue with that pattern?
Seriously, do whatever you want to about Pending Changes on en.WP. You are complaining
about WMF not respecting en.WP decisions. You don't need some formal announcement of
respect. Just make your own decisions without asking WMF to approve. That is what real
respect is. Is something you give to yourself by having confidence enough in your
decisions to move forward with them. Asking others to promise to approve of your
decisions undermines respect. There is a giant gap between not interfering with a
decision and endorsing it. And respect is only about the former. WMF doesn't need
and shouldn't have to go around endorsing decisions made on each of the wikis. In this
aspect, en.WP has failed to mature to the level of most of the other wikis for far to
long. Self-governing means doing it yourself.
I don't think you realize how absolutely disrespectful tone of the entire "en.WP
wants to trial run an implementation of Flagged Revisions" has come across to me as
someone who is associated with other WMF wikis. From the very beginning and still
continuing with your recent posts; and I even edit en.WP significantly. Do you realize
the development man-hours that have been put into adapting the extension to the very
specific set of requirements that en.WP demanded on having before you all were even
willing to even talk about whether you might permanently use it? And the entire time you
all constantly complained about what was taking the devs so long to fulfill your detailed
demands? (It was at some phases comparatively quick or at the very worst normal) I
frankly hope you all decide to stop using Pending Changes and to forget about ever further
testing it. Maybe then some developer will find some time to work on Lilypond. Or *any*
somewhat functional
way to do musical notation. I am not picky at all, because what there is now is NOTHING.
And that is Bug 189; as in it was the one-hundred and eighty ninth bug placed on Bugzilla
back in 2004. And even if not Bug 189, there may more be time for one of the numerous
other development issues which is not even a blip on en.WP's political radar. Just
hopefully, at the very least, it will be something that can possibly be used somewhere
else in WMF land *in addition* to en.WP.
Birgitte SB
Here is a challenge for anyone else on the list who is as turned-off as I am about how
many of the en.WP editors have approached this whole issue from Day 1: Let's make an
effort only to respond to threads for the rest of the year when we can provide examples of
the issues from wikis other than en.WP.