Hoi,
Search is relatively stand alone. It has been improved in the past. As it
is, there are gaping holes that are easily fixed with a hack by Magnus.
Search for instance on the Tamil Wikipedia for an English Wikipedia article
only or for an American like Valerie Simpson that does not.
Improving search does not have the same impact that the editor has. The
quality as it is poor to say the least. How for instance do you find
pictures of a 'paard' the windmill thingie? The notion that something has
to be done in a particular way is imho a knee jerk reaction. We do not
fulfil our mission; sharing in the sum of all knowledge, we do not even
begin to share what is available to us.
Has the community ever decided that search is any good? Really, it has
improved a lot over the years but it is still poor and we can use the money
of the Knight foundation to do a better job. It needs to be exponentially
better.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 15 February 2016 at 17:13, Steinsplitter Wiki <
steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com> wrote:
Regarding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales/Statement_of_principles
Any changes to the software must be gradual and reversible. We
need to make sure that any changes contribute positively to the
community, as ultimately determined by the Wikimedia Foundation, in full
consultation with the community consensus.
----
Lila at all, Why you don't consult he community about new projects/code?
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:35:06 -0800
From: lila(a)wikimedia.org
To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and
grant
offer?
Hi Gnangarra,
Thank you for forwarding, the authors of the article seem to be confused
about the nature of the project. Our Comms team is working to clarify
this.
Please expect to see something from us in next
few days.
Lila
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> FYI making main stream media
>
>
>
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/wikimedia-foundation-aims-to-take-…
>
> On 14 February 2016 at 00:49, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Anne, we're talking about almost the same thing, but not exactly. I
say
> > "advised" you say
"consulted". "Consulted" implies soliciting or
> expecting
> > some kind of response or engagement - probably
> > approval/disapproval/critique/input. "Advised" means they got the
memo. I
> > think "advised" is enough,
and if the board wants more engagement,
they
> can
> > initiate it - presuming the notification is clear and comprehensive,
of
> > course.
> >
> > Anthony Cole
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > Well, I'm not sure about that, Anthony. By "consulted", I
would
mean
> > > something to the effect of
"We're looking at applying to XX for a
grant
> > of
> > > $YYY to do ZZZ" and asking the Board if they would be likely to
agree
> to
> > > accept such a grant if the application is successful. The grant
> > > application, evaluation and approval process is costly in both
time
and
> > > resources, and for both the
applicant and the grantmaker. Being
> informed
> > > that a grant has been approved sounds more like a fait accompli
> situation
> > > for the Board - they look petty and ungrateful if they say no,
even
if
> > they
> > > don't think it was a reasonable grant application. In this case,
we're
> > > only dealing with $250,000. What
if this was $1 million? $10
million?
> > >
> > > I think it is healthier for everyone if the Board is properly
consulted
> > > before the application is
submitted. (And again, I note that we
don't
> > know
> > > how much was actually requested in this case, only what was
granted.)
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 12 February 2016 at 21:23, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anne, regarding:
> > > >
> > > > "Since the Board must approve acceptance of any donations over
> $100,000
> > > > USD, it seems to be obvious that they should be consulted and
> possibly
> > > > should actively approve any grant applications where the dollar
value
> > > > sought is higher than that
amount."
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure that the board should be *consulted* ahead of such
> > > > applications' or should prior-approve all such applications.
That
> > seems a
> > > > bit like micromanagement. But it makes sense to me for the board
to
> be
> > > > *advised
> > > > *of such applications and when they're being actively
contemplated or
> > > > prepared.
> > > >
> > > > Anthony Cole
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, Gerard. I
personally
> would
> > > like
> > > > > to feel more assured that the WMF is looking into the longer
future
> > and
> > > > > actively plannning for the day that donations no longer
support a
> > large
> > > > > staff doing lots of things.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am concerned today that the team specifically tasked to work
> > closely
> > > > with
> > > > > so many elements of the community has lost 7% of its staff,
and 30%
> > of
> > > > its
> > > > > leaders, in a single week. This should be a concern in any
> > > organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > With respect to the Knight grant - I know that many times grant
> > > > > applications are made for considerably more than is given, and
I am
> > > > > interested to know how
much the WMF requested in the first
place.
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > also like to know whether or not the Board was formally
advised of
> > the
> > > > > request before it was submitted. Since the Board must approve
> > > acceptance
> > > > > of any donations over $100,000 USD, it seems to be obvious that
> they
> > > > should
> > > > > be consulted and possibly should actively approve any grant
> > > applications
> > > > > where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount. I
don't
> > > > believe
> > > > > the current policies require advance approval or even advance
> > > > notification,
> > > > > though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 03:54, Gerard Meijssen <
> > > gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > I am not complaining. I point out that all this huha does
not get
> > us
> > > > > > anywhere. I am not afraid to give an opinion and I am not
afraid
> to
> > > be
> > > > a
> > > > > > contrarian when I think it makes sense. Yes, things
happened
that
> > > were
> > > > > not
> > > > > > beautiful. They are not what upset me. What upsets me is
that
> > people
> > > > like
> > > > > > Siko and Anna are leaving. Because they are part of
"my"
> Wikimedia
> > > > > > Foundation. What upsets me is that I routinely use
Magnus's
tool
> > and
> > > > > > process hundreds of thousands of records and am to
understand
> that
> > > > > official
> > > > > > query is stunted and does not allow for this "because
it was
not
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > design" and it is then pointed out that it takes money
to
solve
> > > this...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My point is that baying for blood is not what helps us
forward.
> > What
> > > I
> > > > do
> > > > > > know is that when sheer negativity is not coupled with an
ability
> > to
> > > > stop
> > > > > > and move forward, we will get in a downward spiral. I fault
Pine
> > for
> > > > not
> > > > > > being able to stop. What I wish for is for people like Anna
and
> > Siko
> > > > and
> > > > > > money for our environment and not for an endowment.
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > GerardM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:35, Michel Vuijlsteke <
> wikipedia(a)zog.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gerard,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was waiting for this mail. For me personally, your
> complaining
> > is
> > > > > > > achieving exactly the opposite of what you think.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It sounds as if you'd much rather prefer to stick
your
head in
> > the
> > > > sand
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > hope things will blow over. "Move along, nothing
to see
here --
> > oh
> > > > > look!
> > > > > > > something positive over there!" is not going to
solve
anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen <
> > > > > gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > > > Pine as you are talking about "self
inflicting wounds" I
take
> > it
> > > > you
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > not talking in your personal capacity. When is it
enough
for
> > you?
> > > > > When
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > you going to talk about positive things, things
that will
> move
> > us
> > > > > > > forward.
> > > > > > > > Why ask for blood and more blood? What is it that
you
hope to
> > > > > achieve?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who do you represent in this unending litany of
negativity
> and
> > > what
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > you achieved in this way? When Lila was engaged
in her
role,
> > she
> > > > was
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > direct in a different direction and she is doing
that.
You
> may
> > > not
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > and that is ok.
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > GerardM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 08:43, Pine W <
wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dariusz, thanks for continuing to engage
here. Besides
the
> > good
> > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > > > that others have asked, I'll add a few:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1. If the Knowledge Engine is such an
important
project,
> why
> > is
> > > > it
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > mentioned in
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2015-16
> > > > > > > > ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. I realize that as a percentage of the WMF
budget,
$250k
> > is a
> > > > > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > > > small number. As others have said, this is
not a
reason for
> > > > opacity
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > it, nor a reason for not having a
conversation with the
> > > community
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > something so strategically important as a
decision to
> explore
> > > the
> > > > > > > > question
> > > > > > > > > of "Would users go to Wikipedia if it
were an open
channel
> > > beyond
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > encyclopedia?" It's one thing to
have a blue-sky
exercise
> > > > thinking
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > possibilities, and another thing to take a
$250k step
in
> that
> > > > > > > direction,
> > > > > > > > > especially without consulting the
community.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 3. I am getting tired about seeing bad news
in general
> about
> > > WMF
> > > > > > > > > governance, planning, and turnover. I am
curious how
you
> plan
> > > to
> > > > > > > address
> > > > > > > > > those issues. Like you, I would rather that
we be
talking
> > about
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > > movement plans for the next 10 years.
However, it's
> difficult
> > > to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > conversations when WMF is making so many
self-inflicted
> > wounds.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > > recent
> > > > > > > > > round of resignations is of respectable
people from
the WMF
> > > staff
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > the situation that much more concerning and
that much
more
> > > > > difficult
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > recover from. It seems to me that WMF
leadership has
lost
> > > control
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > situation, and I'd like to hear what the
recovery plan
is.
> > > > > > Personally,
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > feel that we need leadership that can build
good
> > relationships
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > staff and community, is transparent by
default, and is
> > capable
> > > of
> > > > > > > > restoring
> > > > > > > > > the credibility of the organization's
planning,
execution,
> > and
> > > > > > > goodwill.
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > think that we may need new leadership to
make that
happen.
> I
> > am
> > > > > > > > interested
> > > > > > > > > to hear your thoughts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Dariusz
Jemielniak <
> > > > > > darekj(a)alk.edu.pl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 11.02.2016 10:23 PM "SarahSV"
<
sarahsv.wiki(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > napisał(a):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > > > > > > Dariusz,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > T
> > > > > > > > > > > he grant application doesn't
restrict the search
engine
> > to
> > > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > > > projects. It says that the
"Knowledge Engine by
Wikipedia
> > [is
> > > > a]
> > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > discovering reliable and trustworthy
public
information
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > > Internet.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the top range
could
potentially
> be
> > > all
> > > > > > > > > open/public
> > > > > > > > > > resources, but this is the far
stretched total goal,
and
> > > still
> > > > > not
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > general search engine of all content
including
commercial
> > > one.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And a rrasonable realistic outcome can
be just
improving
> > our
> > > > > > searches
> > > > > > > > > > across projects.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I can't comment on the initial
ideas or goals, as I
was
> not
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Board
> > > > > > > > > > before August 2015, but this is what I
understand we
> build
> > > now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The document says the "Search
Engine by Wikipedia"
> budget
> > > for
> > > > > > > > 2015–2016
> > > > > > > > > > ($2.4 million) was approved by the
board. Can you
point
> us
> > > to
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > > meeting approved it and what was
discussed there?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I dont recall this specifically, and
I'm going to
elude
> > this
> > > > > > question
> > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > going to sleep (and hoping someone
better informed
may
> > pick).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good night!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Dj
> > > > > > > > > >
_______________________________________________
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President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU:
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