Last year the community voted that way putting diverse candidates at 5th and 6th position because the election method could not work properly, even assuming (as it was) a general attempt of diverse choice by the electorate. The main issue was in the low threshold for the candidatures. As soon as I figured out with a simple set of simulations I tried to warn and I was semi-harassed on the telegram chat. One person told me to shut up because I did not understand how STV worked, another one accused me of being in bad taste.

However, my analysis was probably right. I expected the output to be gender balanced but not geographically balanced because of dispersion among candidates. Unfortunately people were probably too ideologically oriented by how good STV system was and how great was to have so many candidates. Just to be clear, I don't dislike STV, but at least I understand how to simulate an election. If you want to use STV for a diverse output, put a clear selection of candidates after studying how people usually vote.

In general, this community has no literacy on electoral process but more importantly, it does not want it. That's why discussing this topic seems almost useless. People could mix up everything together, sometimes they just take a concept and put it to the extreme.

The direct elections was poor because of the lack of understanding of the voting behavior. I am sure even now somebody thinks we have elected so many "white people" because of the "racist" (or more nuanced adjective) electorate, but it would have happened with an honest attempt of diversity by voters, which I think it actually occurred.

As for this issue, these other seats with this system. in the end it looks that the power of the generic users might have increased, we are switching probably from a totally affiliate-oriented election to an election where the community in one step of the process cast a vote in a open at-large election which is generally good. If you have a good selections of candidates, the result might be balanced.

The ASBS2019 election was already an improvement enlarging the electoral base, it was more transparent and public the previous elections of affiliates seats, but it still had to face some issues. One is that some affiliates cast the actual vote among few people with no real participation of their members (even suggesting them to at least inform their members they were casting a vote was "too much"), the other one that a small fraction of active users could be more involved in the process in two or more UGs.

Giving a power of selecting candidates and not final votes to affiliates force them to care more about that step, producing convincing figures while the at-large election still has some issues but it's more democratic for the final choice. It might work, if correctly calibrated.
One issue of the at-large elections  is the threshold for candidates, but delegating to the affiliates might lead to both strong and diverse options, without excessive dispersion.

Another issue of the at-large elections are the votes of institutional account that are not properly handled. Usually people here make some weird comparison about civil servants voting but it has nothing to do with it. You just expect people to reach voting right by themselves and not as a result of c.o.i paid activity, and you should be more careful about it in the case of close results. If the internal process of affiliates select the candidates, than that would be a good moment to decide the weigh of this type of votes at the next step if it's an at large election. Again, you probably don't want to deal with  this problem with a close call.

In any case, again, electoral literacy is hard, while taking one concept and enlarging it for a "soapbox moment" is easy. just to clear I have nothing against one position or another per se. For example I disagree with the merge of the two types of seats because it might lead to some functional results if correctly handled but for sure with the strong ideological positions we face, it can only lead to more chaos. So far, I might say that both processes might end up to more open globally than in the past. Although they could have been much better.

Like everything, we will deal with the data at the end for those who want to care.

Alessandro


Il domenica 24 aprile 2022, 14:58:23 CEST, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@gmail.com> ha scritto:



On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 9:40 AM Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 11:32 PM Andreas Kolbe <jayen466@gmail.com> wrote:
There is no longer any distinction between community and affiliate trustees. For reference, see the "Type of seat" column in the current board member table on Meta, as well as the footnote under the table.[1] 

What Dariusz has announced here is a new process for determining "community-and-affiliate trustees". This new process is being "implemented on a trial basis for the 2022 election".  


I don't think it follows that the Board intends to use this model for the following (2024?) election of the four seats elected last year. Indeed, I am virtually certain they won't, given the significance of the movement governance changes that are going on, and the level of change we have seen in WMF board elections in the last few years.


You don't say you "trial" something if you're planning to do it only this once. 

This whole change in process goes back to a "Call for feedback" that was put out on December 23, 2021, i.e. one day before Christmas Eve.[1] 

There is hardly a worse working day in the year to make such an announcement, for most people in our movement, if the intent truly is to attract widespread attention. Why not wait until the New Year, and make such an announcement once people are back at their desks, undistracted by holiday preparations? 

(Announcing potentially contentious items or U-turns this close to Christmas should really be forbidden. A similar thing was done in the Abstract Wikipedia licensing discussion.[2])

Subsequently this "Call for feedback" process seems to have consisted almost exclusively of four calls or meetings between the WMF and a number of affiliates.[3] The description of these meetings on Meta includes the following item:

"By Victoria: Currently, there are a range of options for affiliates to be involved; e.g. the same way as before (ASBS) or; the affiliates could select among the candidates, and the community votes on those candidates, or swap it around, to have the community vote on a shortlist for the affiliates to vote on."

I assume that "Victoria" refers to WMF Board Member Victoria Doronina. If that is so, then it is somewhat obfuscatory – although not altogether incorrect, of course – to say on the page on Meta summarising these discussions:[4]

"One member of the community suggested that diversity (regional, gender, expertise and others) could be ensured if the election process was modified to allow the affiliates to choose a shortlist of 10-15 candidates. This is in a way similar to the Movement Charter Drafting Committee selection process. The community would later vote and select their representatives from that shortlist."

Of course Victoria is a longstanding community member, but she is also presently a WMF Board Member. If a WMF Board Member suggests changes to the way the WMF Board will be constituted in future, then I think it would be proper to identify this suggestion as originating from within the Board itself. If another Victoria was meant, then this point is moot.

As for the question in your other mail, Chris, the two seats in question are not affiliate seats. For better or worse, they are now community-and-affiliate-selected seats.[3] They should be selected by a method that is equitable. The method Dariusz announced is not.

A couple of people on the Kurier Diskussion page in de:WP and on Meta have made comments to the effect that volunteers always end up voting for white men living in the West. It's worth noting that the people placed 5th and 6th in last year's community vote were a woman from Ivory Coast (who lost out by the slimmest of margins) and a Brit living on Tenerife, a Spanish island off the coast of Africa.

Andreas



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