Ugh. Sorry. I mean: should involvement in and advocacy for a particular movement initiative disqualify one from voting on motions related to that initiative?
Anthony Cole
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com wrote:
jytdog, regarding:
"Going forward, there should be a) a clear disclosure of relevant outside interests and b) a pre-agreed COI management plan where those interests conflict with a Trustee's obligations, before Trustees formally step into the role."
When you say "relevant outside interests" what do you mean?
I'd love to hear Denny's thoughts on this. Also, Denny, I'm interested to hear you were concerned about a conflict of interest with Wikidata. I'm just now rethinking the question of internal conflicts of interest. Are they necessarily a bad thing? You were elected by a community who, I think, expected you to create an environment where Wikidata could flourish. Is it a bad thing to have advocates for movement initiatives on the board?
Anthony Cole
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com wrote:
Good points worth repeating, though, jytdog.
We're learning as we go here. COI is notoriously difficult to anticipate and manage. None of us, that I'm aware of, thought about - or at least discussed - the implications of his Google role when he ran for the board, and when it became too onerous to manage, Denny had the wisdom to step away.
He's an enormous asset to this movement; as I said, we're lucky to have him, and I'm very grateful for all he's contributed.
Anthony Cole
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:44 PM, jytdog jytdog@gmail.com wrote:
This is kind of frustrating. Lila (speaking for the board) in her "Why we changed < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lila_Tretikov%27s_statement_on_Why_we%27ve_c...
"
message, identified falling page views (creating a threat of falling donation revenue) caused by folks like Google repurposing our content as an "existential challenge". I am not sure I agree with that, but the WMF Board and the former ED said that. (Jimmy confirmed that on his Talk page, too)
The key thing about Denny's COI issues as they unfolded, is that he was surprised and frustrated about the problems managing his COI ended up causing - so much so that he quit. That stuff actually happened. Debating what his COI was or whether it mattered is really beside the point... and all murky because whatever management plan was worked out - whatever areas actually were identified as problematic - we do not know, as that plan wasn't made public.
Going forward, there should be a) a clear disclosure of relevant outside interests and b) a pre-agreed COI management plan where those interests conflict with a Trustee's obligations, before Trustees formally step into the role. What happened with Denny doesn't have to happen again. That seems to be the key issue looking forward.
I'm repeating myself, and will stop now.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 2:28 AM, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with all of that, MZ. As to your questions:
"Shouldn't we be applauding Google and others for helping us share our knowledge with the world?"
Yes.
"What size do you think the Wikimedia Foundation should be in terms of yearly budget and number of full-time employees? How much bigger or smaller
should
the Wikimedia Foundation be than other Wikimedia chapters?"
It depends on what we want them to do.
"...are you sure that we're all agreed that this [Google impacting Wikipedia's page views and the ability to raise funds and recruit new volunteers]
is
problematic?"
I'm less concerned than many, and I'm sure others are unconcerned.
"If Google causes page views to go down and our sites are directly hit less frequently, that actually saves us money, doesn't it?"
If our page views drop by 50% and this halves our fundraising
capacity, I
doubt that would be offset by the saved hosting costs. But I'm no
expert on
these things.
Anthony Cole
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 11:46 AM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Anthony Cole wrote:
Google's "info boxes" and their answers at the top of their results,
we're
all agreed now, I think, are impacting Wikipedia's page views and, consequently, our ability to raise funds and recruit new volunteers.
Google and others have a direct interest in their data being
accurate and
reliable. We already see that Google has a "report a correction"
feature
for some of its services. It's in both Wikimedia's interest and
re-users'
interest for the underlying data source to be update-to-date and
correct.
Our mission is to spread free educational content to the world and we
make
our data available for re-use for this purpose. Shouldn't we be
applauding
Google and others for helping us share our knowledge with the world?
As far as threats to direct-to-user fund-raising go, I'd put organizational instability ahead of Google at the moment. The
Wikimedia
Foundation has repeatedly been in the news lately for ongoing
management
issues, both in its executive team and in its board of trustees.
What size do you think the Wikimedia Foundation should be in terms of yearly budget and number of full-time employees? How much bigger or smaller should the Wikimedia Foundation be than other Wikimedia
chapters?
Even if we accepted your premise that Google was impacting
Wikipedia's
page views and the ability to raise funds and recruit new volunteers (citations needed, to be sure), are you sure that we're all agreed
that
this is problematic? If others re-using our content has a side effect of reducing donations to Wikimedia Foundation Inc., donations which
are
received through questionable and increasingly obnoxious on-site advertisements, you will not find universal agreement that this donor reduction would be terrible. As others have argued previously, small
and
recurring donations are a means of providing accountability for the entities entrusted with these monetary donations. If potential
donors no
longer trust the Wikimedia Foundation to manage and distribute this money, no longer donating financially is practical and wise.
If Google causes page views to go down and our sites are directly hit
less
frequently, that actually saves us money, doesn't it? We're
theoretically
then off-loading some of our hosting costs to Google, Facebook, and others who are downloading and re-uploading our data to the Web,
exactly
as we mandated that anyone be able to do. With multiple copies of the
data
on the Web, we're better ensuring that the content lives on in
perpetuity.
MZMcBride
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