This is getting ridiculous.
Jimmy, you quoted from an email exchange with James. James claims this
selective quoting distorted the nature of the exchange. You have been asked
to publish the entire exchange. The only other party to that exchange
(James) wants it published. As Fae and others have repeatedly pointed out,
you may simply redact any confidential board information. Your explanations
for not releasing the whole exchange are an insult to our intelligence and
your refusal to do so is a display of contempt.
James is a genuine leader and spokesperson, elected by the community.
What are you?
You happened to be there when your failed encyclopaedia, thanks to Larry's
idea to use a wiki and thanks to the energy and determination of the
community, exploded before your eyes into this amazing thing.
Now, you pretend to be the genius behind Wikipedia. Now, you pose as the
humanitarian who gave away the encyclopaedia because "it was the right
thing to do" (when, in reality, you relinquished it because the community
wouldn't allow you to monetise it). Now, you make a nice living off this
charade.
You can take that story with you and, I'm sure, for a while at least,
you'll still be able to dine out on it. But you're in the way here. It's
time to move on from the board and from your self-appointed role as
"spokesperson for the community".
We need honest, hard working people who genuinely represent us in a
public-facing role, not a deceitful, self-aggrandising, opportunistic
squatter.
Anthony Cole
On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironholds(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, 23 April 2016, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hoi,
Governance worth a damn... <grin> Did you know that I introduced Jan
Bart
to Jimmy </grin> the rest is also history.
Yes Gerard, you're very very important. Much more so than me. Well done.
But honestly. In the final analysis the more importance is given to the
board, the more it shows a dysfunctional movement. When governance is so
relevant, the first thing to do is not to micro-manage. That is what the
board is not supposed to do and when something did not go right,
remember
that they are people. Ask yourself how we as a
movement suffer instead
or
when you find that a certain behaviour did not
win the beauty contest.
I know the board are people. I also know the people their actions affect
are people. I am agreed that the board is too prominent - see also the
spinoff thread - and given too much importance. But when the board sets
direction on almost everything that costs money, it's function or
dysfunction is absolutely an 'important thing'
I'm going to drop this thread because it is relatively clear we are not
making any progress, in either direction, on convincing the other one
we're
right. But hey, at least neither of us demanded the other question their
own sanity :p
This whole affair is backward. It does not help
us forward, it does
hinder
and it takes energy away from those things that
really matter.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 17 April 2016 at 22:13, Oliver Keyes <ironholds(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > So when as a result of your yihad the worst of what you imagine
comes
> out,
> > the most you have achieved is that you can say "this is why I think
he
is
> > an asshole". Then what. It does not change a thing. We are still
intend
on
> sharing the sum of all knowledge. You still have to do a lot of
convincing
> before most other people would agree with you.
>
> The problem with your single issue approach is achieves more turmoil
than
> > anything else. I fail to understand people like you. It is no longer
> about
> > what we hope to achieve. I have tried to engage you in meaningful
talk
but
> for me it failed.
From what I can see, "what we hope to achieve" is governance worth a
damn. It's people in key positions not using those positions as
weapons. It's people taking empathy and consideration and fiduciary
duties seriously. Now, if the absence of these doesn't affect you, I'm
profoundly jealous, but the fact that you do not understand why
Jimmy's behaviour makes it difficult to claim he's a suitable
participant in Wikimedia's governance does not change that a lot of
other people do have concerns - not just me, not just Andreas.
>
> The one question that I have. In all your hiha I have not understood
that
> > you understand what it is what Jimmy uniquely brings to our
community.
He
> > is really effective as an ambassador for what we do. In this there
is
noone
> who can replace him. How do you want to replace him. Arguably the
latest
> > crop of board members have shown how hard it is in the first place
to
make
> a meaningful contribution.
Who said anything about replacing him as an ambassador? When Jimmy is
mentioned in the media it's in the context of being Wikipedia's
founder, not one of a dozen-odd board members, and unless there's an
IEG for the invention of a TARDIS I don't think anyone is removing his
founder status. The question is simply whether he is a suitable person
to indefinitely sit on the Board of Trustees, making governance
decisions, given the behaviour he has shown.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 17 April 2016 at 20:20, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >> On March 21, Jimmy posted excerpts from an email conversation he'd
had
> with
> >> James Heilman on his Wikipedia user talk page, making further
> allegations
> >> against James.[1]
> >>
> >> James replied twice:
> >>
> >> <quote>
> >>
> >> Jimmy Wales' summary above of our email correspondence is far from
> >> complete, and is not an accurate representation of the overall
> discussion.
> >> Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:22, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
> >>
> >> Jimbo, you quoted some passages of our mails above. Would you have
any
> >> objection to my posting the
complete exchange, so that the parts
you
> quoted
> >> can be seen in context? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:09,
31
> March
> >> 2016 (UTC)
> >>
> >> <end of quote>
> >>
> >> Jimmy Wales ignored the latter question until the thread was
archived.
>>
>> So – will the community get to see the complete exchange or not, so
that
> >> everyone can judge for themselves how it was misrepresented by
Jimmy's
>>
selective quoting?
>>
>>
>> [1]
>>
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_206#What_James_…
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>>
wrote:
> >>
> >> > If we are going to have more elections, can we please hold Jimmy
to
>>
> account this year rather than waiting for him to leave the board
under
>> > his own steam?
>> >
>> > His use of "utter fucking bullshit", then using these
distraction
>> > politics to avoid answering basic questions intended to deal with
his
> >> > repeated public allegations of lying against a respected
community
> >> > member, is not what the
Wikimedia movement needs or wants from a
> >> > Trustee, or someone who represents the movement to the press.
> >> >
> >> > If Jimmy were a WMF employee, he'd be gone by now.
> >> >
> >> > P.S. We are still waiting for Jimmy to publish his interviews
with
WMF
> >> > employees resulting from his trip to SF, when he was claiming to
act
>>
> for the WMF board, I can't be bothered to work out how many weeks
ago
> >> > that was. Is this sort of promise that Jimmy would call
"bullshit"
if
> >> > it was yet another person he had an ongoing feud with?
> >> >
> >> > Fae
> >> >
> >> > On 11 April 2016 at 12:24, Andy Mabbett <
andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk
<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> > > On 23 March 2016 at 11:48, Andy Mabbett <
andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk <javascript:;>>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >> On 23 March 2016 at 10:01, Jimmy Wales <
jimmywales(a)wikia-inc.com
<javascript:;>>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> But I did publish something on my user talk page that is
relevant.
>> > >>
>> > >> Diff, please.
>> > >
>> > > Answer came there none...
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
>> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
>> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> >> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
>>
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>