You can turn it around; give added credits for translations from small
language projects and into the larger ones, that is a lot more interesting
than strictly translating from the larger language projects.
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland(a)wikimedia.ca
wrote:
> I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned
> language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple
> opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less interesting
> > in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad idea, the
> > translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles should also
> be
> > pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie vertical articles,
> > as the number of editors that can handle those will be pretty small.
> >
> > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new
> editor!
> > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com>
>
wrote:
> >
> > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
> > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the
project.
> > >
> > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made
efforts
> more
> > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
> > tool
> > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
> > that
> > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love
> the
> > >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> > >
> > >
> > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious.
> > >
> > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
> > >> which
> > >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian
> there
> > >> is
> > >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question.
> > The
> > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And
> for
> > >> languages in which we have little content there are often few
> avaliable
> > >> volunteers.
> > >
> > >
> > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of
> > > competing articles are pretty low.
> > >
> > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would
require
> > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the
> work
> > >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so
> > languages
> > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second
> > >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be
> > >> accepted.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It
is as
> > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the
project?"
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project which
> > >> started back in 2011:
> > >>
> > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles are
> > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation.
> > >>
> > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on
EN WP.
> Thus
> > >> we
> > >> moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the leads of
> the
> > >> English articles.
> > >>
> > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made
efforts
> more
> > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see that
> > tool
> > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of articles
> > that
> > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love
> the
> > >> tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects.
> > >>
> > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner
> > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages in
> > >> which
> > >> their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and Italian
> there
> > >> is
> > >> often already at least some content on many of the topics in question.
> > The
> > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And
> for
> > >> languages in which we have little content there are often few
> avaliable
> > >> volunteers.
> > >>
> > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this
would require
> > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the
> work
> > >> seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or so
> > languages
> > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a second
> > >> review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests to be
> > >> accepted.
> > >>
> > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple of
> > >> years.
> > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn how
> > to
> > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 (one
> > for
> > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into
> Content
> > >> Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the user name and
> > >> password to the account.
> > >>
> > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of
> > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. This
> > >> includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO Essential
> > >> List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The efforts have
> > >> resulted
> > >> in more than 5 million works translated and integrated into different
> > >> Wikipedias. The coordinator has unfortunately moved on to his real job
> > of
> > >> teaching high school students.
> > >>
> > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The
> > Wikipedian
> > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically single
> > >> handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a language spoken
> > by
> > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for many
> > of
> > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it.
> > >> Google
> > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our
> partnerships
> > >> with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to translate into
> > Chinese.
> > >> There the students translate and than their translations are reviewed
> by
> > >> their profs before being posted. They translate in groups using
> hackpad
> > to
> > >> make it more social.
> > >>
> > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-)
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad
<jeblad(a)gmail.com>
> > >
wrote:
> >
>>
> > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D
> > >> >
> > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k
> > >> articles,
> > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small.
> > >> >
> > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators?
> There
> > >> are
> > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand
articles
> > from
> > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and
and the ten
> > >> thousand
> > >> > articles from the expanded list[2].
> > >> >
> > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word
> > (about
> > >> $1
> > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into
another
> > >> > language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in high-cost
> > >> > countries. The pay would also have to be higher for languages
that
> > lacks
> > >> > good translation tools.
> > >> >
> > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the
communities,
> as
> > >> > without a base set of articles it won't be possible to build
a
> > >> community at
> > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating
> > >> well-referenced
> > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be
avoided.
> > >> Perhaps
> > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a
help.
> > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they
does
> > not
> > >> > have to be full translations of the source article.
> > >> >
> > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other
> > >> projects
> > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they
> need
> > a
> > >> lot
> > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit
> > bias?
> > >> >
> > >> > [1]
> > >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > >> > Wikipedia_should_have
> > >> > [2]
> > >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_
> > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> James Heilman
> > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >> _______________________________________________
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