Wikimedia-l February 2005

wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

61 participants
84 discussions

[Foundation-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] Wiki Problems?
by Brion Vibber 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

Brion Vibber wrote: > Update logs are still replaying, but we're up to 42 minutes prior to the > crash on one machine and still going. I don't expect problems. With two servers fully recovered we've got the wikis up for read-write access; editing is open. Total time from crash to restoring edit service was about 24 hours, 10 minutes. Sigh. Some special pages (including contribs and watchlist) are off for the moment to reduce server load until we have more machines up. Some things remain a little wonky. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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For improvement of JA situation (Re: [Foundation-l] And blocked again)
by notafish 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

> I did make a check, and found that indeed the Japanese Wikipedia has > a remarkably low number of admins. It has about the same number as the > Dutch one (ja: 31, nl: 34), even though the Dutch one is about half > the size of the Japanese one, and compared to other languages is > relatively low. The Polish and Swedish Wikipedias have considerably > more admins. I think that to compare to the other languages, the > Japanese number could easily be doubled. > > > Before diving into the topic, I would like you to remark a fact I am > > not there a sysadmin. > > I thought JA WP needed more helper and requested sysopship twice. My > > requests were > > rejected with 65-72% approvals [JA WP holds 75% criteria for > > promotion]. In my view > > some of JA users are afraid I am a sort of authoritarians, with an > > iron rod, and/or suspect > > I don't shere with them the view what Wikipedia should be. Kind of the same problem arose on fr, Admins were considered cream of the cream. I have put in place a demythification process here : *http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Administrateur/Tableau_de_bord_de_l%27administrateur *http://fr.wikipedia.org/Wikipédia:Administrateur/Processus_de_suppression *http://fr.wikipedia.org/Wikipédia:Administrateur/Processus_de_blocage *http://fr.wikipedia.org/Wikipédia:Administrateur/Processus_de_protection (other links can be found at the bottom of the first page) which goal was to de-sacralize the admins job. This has definitely worked on fr to make the admin position clearer and a lot of people who dreaded becoming an admin for fear of being cast into an authoritarian category have expressed interest in becoming admins. (4 in the last two weeks), which helps. I don't know whether this can solve any problems, but it could be a starting point and I am willing to help putting it together for other languages if anyone is interested, providing I am supplied with the appropriate shotscreens. Cheers, Delphine

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[Foundation-l] unsubscribe
by Fleischer 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

I wish to unsubscribe. Please show how. Thanks, LF

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[Foundation-l] currency POV
by NSK 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

"Wikimedia needs your help in its $75,000 (€57,500) fund drive." It should be: "Wikimedia needs your help in its US$75,000 (€57,500) fund drive." -- NSK http://portal.wikinerds.org

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[Foundation-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] Wiki Problems?
by Brion Vibber 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

Brion Vibber wrote: > James R. Johnson wrote: >> Is there something wrong with the wikis? I was trying to do >> some writing on ang.wikibooks.org, and ang.wiktionary.org and they don't >> work. Are they down right now, or did something else happen? > > There was some sort of power failure at the colocation facility. We're > in the process of rebooting and recovering machines. The power failure was due to circuit breakers being tripped within the colocation facility; some of our servers have redundant power supplies but *both* circuits failed, causing all our machines and the network switch to unceremoniously shut down. Whether a problem in MySQL, with our server configurations, or with the hardware (or some combination thereof), most of our database servers managed to glitch the data on disk when they went down. (Yes, we use InnoDB tables. This ain't good enough, apparently.) The good news: one server maintained a good copy, which we've been copying to the others to get things back on track. We're now serving all wikis read-only. The bad news: that copy was a bit over a day behind synchronization (it was stopped to run maintenance jobs), so in addition to slogging around 170gb of data to each DB server we have to apply the last day's update logs before we can restore read/write service. I don't know when exactly we'll have everything editable again, but it should be within 12 hours. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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[Foundation-l] re-registration of wikimedia foundartion
by Amar Singh Katil 22 Feb '05

22 Feb '05

Please confirm my list for the above foundation-1 mailing list by e mail askatil(a)rediffmail.com

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[Foundation-l] Jimbo's speech video from Paris meeting
by Yann Forget 21 Feb '05

21 Feb '05

Hi, Thanks to Thomas from the association "Regarde à vue" who recorded and produced it, the video from Jimbo's speech on Paris meeting in July 2004 is available at http://bleuenn.wikimedia.org:8080/paris_07_2004/ as well as the audio. It's also available on Torrent: http://bleuenn.wikimedia.org:8080/paris_07_2004/jimmy.wales.paris.07.2004.m… and eDonkey network: ed2k://|file|[docu].[videobaseproject.net].wikipedia.jimmy.wales.paris.07.200 4{xvid+ogg}.mkv|335070246|FCAE33745C80226F9970C68447119D99|h=DCQ4Q6MWC4VVZIXH OML5B3RI5YJWORPP|/ Regards, Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

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[Foundation-l] WSIS: Summary report. Week 1/informe semana 1/rapport semaine 1
by Yann Forget 20 Feb '05

20 Feb '05

Hi, Here is the summary report from the first week of the World Summit on Information Society meeting in Geneva. Divina Frau-Meigs was very helpful adding our concerns in this report. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Education_and_WGIG.pdf Comments welcome. Regards, Yann ---------- Message transmis ---------- Subject: Summary report. Week 1/informe semana 1/rapport semaine 1 Date: Sunday 20 February 2005 18:31 Text in three languages/texte en trois langues/texto en tres idiomas Dear members of the list General comments : As I foresaw, the first week of prepcom 2 was rather hectic, and scattered. The bureau (in which education holds a seat, that i share with Francis Muguet for reasons of efficiency) is still plodding along to find its legitimacy and you should see on the plenary list some of the recommendations for the charter that we are elaborating (about membership, role, responsibilities and duties). The content and themes group meets everyday in the late afternoon to discuss the topics and texts of the interventions in plenary. The education family should have a slot next week, towards the end. I plan to insert the main themes of our response to the « friends of the president », with an emphasis on funding mechanisms and post-tunis follow up. A quick evaluation of the situation for education : -thank you for the text that you have helped elaborate. It has been well received by most of you who have sent positive responses, and added some details which i will integrate in the next version. The problem remains one of language translation and we should endeavour to have at least a French and spanish version soon. The text has been well received by the other civil society caucuses and by the official delegations i have submitted it to. It turns out that the long version is not a bad thing at all : people are not all experts and they appreciate to have a rationale, before being given recommendations. At this point, the way i summarize the rationale is : « education for shared knowledge societies and via open access » ; the plan of action is : « for a change of scales ». the long version has allowed delegations to position themselves on specific points they want to defend or support, as they are having to make priorities. So the Tunisians are supporting the free software idea, as they have designated a free software secretariat ; the Europeans are expressing strong interest in the open access recommendation idea ; unesco wants to follow up on teacher training and digital literacy. This is the feedback so far. For next week : The document is not yet perfect. I am currently adding, with those present on the spot, a new item, at the end of the political chapeau, about rights, especially an exemption to Intellectual Property rights for education. The European union has it already as a directive but most countries are pretending they don¹t know what it is. More to the point of prepcom 2, we need to finalize the input on finance mechanisms and internet governance. We will be meeting with the finance mechanisms caucus several times during the week to get their knowledgeable input and to be coherent with civil society positions at large. Same thing for internet governance, though it is a theme that will be deepened as the main subject of prepcom 3, which gives us a little bit more time to make our ideas concrete. A finalized version of the text should reach you by the end of the week, to be still worked on and possibly translated in at least the 6 UN languages. This should be finalized by mid-march so that you can all appropriate it. For next month : -once the text is finalized, each and all of us should distribute it to our governement delegations, as a means of lobbying ; -once the text is finalized, each and all of us should use it as « language » in whatever venue we are invited to talk and to participate Bernard Loing is also preparing a shorter version, on two pages, to serve as a leaftlet to distribute in the name of the taskforce. for prepcom 3 : Organize a roundtable, around one of our issues, maybe around the idea of open access in education, or around media and ICT literacy On the homework for all those of you who are away, besides the input you can give us it would be strategically important to create two annexes : one with « inspiring examples », one of « suggested or planned events ». This is for you to let other know what you are doing or suggest the taskforce to do. Feel free of course to keep on providing feedback and reactions to the version that you have now Also for your information, some deadlines : Proposals for side events, to be channelled to the Tunisian liaison people, are received until end of April, at the latest ; WGIG open input, for mid April, and again some time in May. Please look at the 3 page document I am putting as annex (at the very bottom of this message): it is the current state of the WGIG document on education, that seems to have been open by an unknown member of the WGIG group. You will see it is very incomplete. We should complete it as much as we can and offer it for consideration to the taskforce. They are asking for input and there is no deadline. I would like us to have a deadline, by end of March, once we have our own response to the president¹s friends finalized. What do you think ? Best Divina Frau-Meigs Co-ordinator, education, academia and research taskforce ANNEX below, three pages : WGIG file on education and capacity building. To be completed by us ******************** chers membres de la liste : commentaires généraux : Comme je l¹avais prévu, la première semaine de la prepcom 2 a été plutôt bousculée et très éparpillée. Le bureau (dans lequel la famille éducation a un siège, que je partage avec Francis Muguet pour des raisons d¹efficacité) est encore à la recherche de sa propre légitimé. Vous avez du voir passer dans la liste de plénière certaines des recommandations de fonctionnement pour la charte que nous sommes en train d¹élaborer (sur les membres, le rôle du bureau, ses responsabilités, ses devoirs). Le groupe des Thèmes et contenus qui élabore les textes de la société civile se réunit chaque après-midi pour discuter des sujets et des textes à proposer en plénière. La famille éducation devrait avoir un créneau pour la semaine prochaine, jeudi ou vendredi. Je pense que nous y insérerons les réponses principales que nous avons faites aux « amis du président » avec une focalisation sur les mécanismes de financement et le suivi de Tunis. Une rapide évaluation de la situation pour l¹éducation : Merci à tous pour vos contributions au texte que nous avons pu élaborer. La plupart d¹entre vous m¹ont fait un commentaire positif, en ajoutant quelques points de détail que je vais intégrer. Il y a cependant le problème de la langue de travail et le besoin d¹une traduction au moins en français et en espagnol. Le texte a été très bien reçu par les autres groupes de travail de la société civile et par les délégations officielles auxquelles je l¹ai soumis. Il s¹avère que d¹avoir une version longue n¹est pas une mauvaise chose : les participants même côté états ne sont pas des experts, et ils apprécient d¹avoir un argumentaire, avant de considérer les recommandations. A cette étape, je résume souvent notre argumentaire par le motto : « éducation pour les sociétés du savoir partagé, par le biais de l¹accès ouvert », et le plan d¹action par « pour un changement d¹échelles ». La version longue permet aux délégations de se positionner par rapport à des thèmes spécifiques qu¹elles ont envie de défendre, car la plupart des états doivent choisir des priorités. Ainsi les tunisiens sont prêts à soutenir l¹idée du logiciel libre, et ils ont désigné un ministre délégué au logiciel libre ; les Européens ont exprimé leur intérêt pour la recommandation sur les cours en accès ouvert ; l¹Unesco veut faire le suivi de la formation des maîtres et de l¹éducation aux médias et aux TIC. Voilà le retour pour le moment Pour la semaine prochaine : Le document « réponse aux amis du président » n¹est pas parfait, et c¹est celui sur lequel travaillent aussi les états. Je suis en train de rajouter un item supplémentaire, à la fin du chapeau politique (avec ses recommandations d¹action en partie opérationnelle), concernant les droits et spécialement la création d¹une exemption aux droits d¹auteur pour l¹éducation. L¹Union européenne a déjà une directive en ce sens, mais la plupart des pays se font tirer l¹oreille Pour coller davantage à la prepcom 2, qui se focalise sur les mécanismes de financement, il faut concrétiser la section sur les mécanismes de financement, sans négliger la gouvernance d¹internet. Nous allons rencontrer à plusieurs reprises le groupe de travail sur les mécanismes de financement pendant la semaine, pour recevoir leurs remarques et intégrer leur point de vue, afin de rester en cohérence avec les positions générales de la société civile. De même avec la gouvernance d¹internet, bien que ce soit un thème qui sera vraiment débattu en prepcom 3, ce qui nous laisse un peu de temps pour réfléchir. Donc une version finalisée de ce texte devrait vous arriver pour la fin de la semaine, que nous pourrons continuer à élaborer, et faire traduire dans les six langues de l¹ONU si possible. Ce texte devrait être finalisé vers la mi-mars, pour que vous puissiez tous vous l¹approprier. Pour le mois prochain: -une fois le texte finalisé, nous devrions tous les uns et les autres le faire parvenir à nos délégations nationales et aux ambassadeurs mandatés au SMSI, comme une façon de faire du lobbying ; -une fois le texte finalisé, nous devrions tous utiliser son « langage » dans les différentes occasions et événements où nous pouvons avoir la possibilité de nous exprimer. Bernard Loing est en train de préparer une version courte, en recto verso, pour nous servir de brochure à distribuer au nom de la coalition. Pour la prepcom 3 : Il faudrait considérer la possiblité d¹organiser une table-ronde, avec des personnalités, autour d¹un de nos problèmes principaux, peut-être l¹idée de l¹accès ouvert pour l¹éducation, ou encore l¹éducation aux médias et aux NTIC Des suggestions ? Pour ce qui est des devoirs à la maison que tous ceux qui ne peuvent être présents à Genève, à part les remarques que vous pouvez nous donner sur le texte, ce serait stratégiquement important de créer Deux annexes à notre texte : l¹une sur les « exemples édifiants » l¹autre pour les « événements planifiés ou suggérés ». cela nous permettrait de savoir ce que vous faites ou ce que vous voudriez que la coalition fasse, d¹ici à Tunis (Tunis y inclus). N¹hésitez donc pas à nous faire part de vos réactions et suggestions. Pour votre information, quelques dates limites : -les propositions pour les événements parallèles à Tunis sont à faire passer par le personnel de liaison Tunisien, avant la fin avril. -le Groupe sur la gouvernance d¹internet (WGIG) tiendra encore des réunions ouvertes à Genève en avril et en mai. Veuillez regarder les 3 pages que je vous envoie en annexe (à la fin de ce message) : il s¹agit d¹un fichier qui est actuellement parmi les documents produits par le groupe. Vous verrez qu¹il est vide ou du moins très incomplet. Je vous propose de le compléter et de le soumettre au WGIG comme notre contribution. Il n¹y a pas de date limite, mais pour nous je dirais qu¹il faudrait le leur envoyer fin mars, après avoir finalisé notre propre document. Qu¹en pensez-vous ? avec mes cordiales salutations Divina Frau-Meigs Co-ordinatrice, famille éducation, enseignement supérieur et recherche PS : en annexe et seulement en anglais, le texte mentionné concernant le WGIG. ********************************************* Estimados miembros de la lista educacion Comentarios generales Como se debia de esperar, la primera semana de la prepcom 2 fue bastante precipitada y la gente bastante dispersada, con personas llegando por primera vez, otra solo quedandose unos cuantos dias El buro de la sociedad civil (en el que la familia educacion tiene una posicion, que comparto con Francis Muguet, por razones de eficacia) todavia este en busqueda de su legitimidad. Habeis visto pasar en la lista de plenaria algunas de la recomendaciones que se proponen para una carta que estamos elaborando (miembros, papel, responsabilidades y deberes del buro). El grupo de temas y contenidos se reune cada tarde , para elaborar los textos que la sociedad civil propone en la plenaria. La familia educacion tiene un tiempo de palabra para la semana que viene, el jueves o el viernes. Pienso que pondremos nuestras respuestas principales al texto que hemos escrito para los amigos del presidente, con una focalizacion sobre los mecanismos de financiamiento y la continuacion despues de Tunes. Una rapida evaluacion de la situacion para la educacion : Muchas gracias a todos por sus contribuciones al texto que hemos podido elaborar. La mayoria me ha dado comentarios positivos, con ciertos detalles suplementarios que voy a integrar en la nueva version. Hay un problema de idioma y la necessidad de traduccion en espanol y frances que una persona ha planteado y por el que les pido ayuda. .. el texto como esta ahora ha sido bien recibido por los otros grupos de trabajo de la sociedad civil y tarmbien por la delegaciones oficiales que lo han visto. Tener una version larga no es tan pesado como se hubiera podido pensar : la mayoria de la gente presente, por parte de los estados, o es nueva en la cumbre o no es especialista y entonces aprecian tener un argumentario, que les ayuda entender nuestras recomendaciones. Por el momento, cuando sumo nuestro argumentario digo « educacion para sociedades del saber compartido por el medio del acceso abierto » y para el plan de accion « la necessidad de un cambio de escala ». Esta version larga les permite a las delegaciones positionarse sobre temas especificos, ya que los estados se estan dando prioridades. Asi que los tunisianos apoyna la idea del free software, ya que han creado un secretariado sobre este mismo tema ; la union europea ha expressado interes por la recomendacion sobre los cursos en acceso abierto ; la unesco quiere enfocarse con nosotros sobre la formacion de los maestros y la educacion a los medios mas la semana que viene sobre estos asuntos Para la proxima semana : El documento de respuesta a los amigos del presidente tiene que ser perfectionado, ya que los estados lo utilisan como base de trabajo. Estoy anadiendo un tema suplementario, al fin del « political chapeau », (con las recomendaciones adecuadas en la parte « operational »), que trata de la creacion de una exempcion especial para educacion por lo que toca a la propriedad intellectual. La union europea ya tiene una directiva en este sentido pero muchos estados arrastran los pies para responder mas al enfoque de la prepcom 2, que es los mecanismos de financiacion, vamos a vernos varias veces la semana que viene con el grupo tematico sobre los mecanismos de financiacion, sin abandonar el tema de la governancia del internet. Vamos a integrar ciertas sugerencias que nos haran, para coincidir con la posicion general expressada por la sociedad civil. Por lo que toca a la gobernancia del Internet, que sera un tema mas discutido en la prepcom 3, tenemos un poco mas tiempo para prepararnos. Entonces, para sumir, os mandare una version finalizada del texto en fin de semana, para seguir discutiendola, y si es possible, traducirla en los 6 idiomas de la ONU. Este texto tendria que ser finalizado a mitad de marzo, para que cada uno se lo pueda apropriar. Para el proximo mes : -una vez el texto finalizado, tendriamos que mandarlo cada uno de nosotros a nuestras delegaciones nacionales y a los embajadores de la cumbre, para el nuesto lobbying ; -una vez el texto finalizado, tendriamos que utilisar nuestro « lenguaje comun » en cualquiera ocasion se nos presente. Bernard Loing esta preparando una version corta, de dos paginas no mas, para que nos sirva de documentacion para distribuir en el nombre de la coalicion. Para la prepcom 3 : Habria que considerar la possibilidad de organisar une mesa redonda, con varias personalidades invitadas, sobre uno de nuestros temas principales, sea el acceso abierto o la educacion a los medios .. Algunas sugerencias ? Por lo que toca a los deberes en casa, para los que no pueden ser presentes en Ginebra, ademas de las sugerencias para anadir al texto de base, creo que seria estrategico de anadir dos adjuntos al nuesto texto : uno sobre « ejemplos edificantes » y otro sobre « eventos planificados y sugeridos ». Nos permitiria saber lo que os proponeis hacer y lo que quereis que la coalicion haga, desde ahora hacia Tunes (Tunes incluido). Vuestras sugerencias son bienvenidas. Para vuestra informacion, unas fechas limites : -la proposiciones para eventos paralelas en Tunes se tienen que enviar al personal de liaison de Tunisia antes del final de Abril ; -el grupo de trabajo sobre la gobernancia del Internet (WGIG) se va a reunir de modo abierto otra vez en Abril y otra vez mas en Mayo, en Ginebra. Os mando en adjunto 3 paginas que nos tocan a nosotros (ver al final del mensage). Se trata de un fichero, que alguien (anonimo) a abierto por lo que toca a educacion. Como vereis esta casi vacio y muy incompleto. Os propongo de completarlo con nuestra posicion y de enviarlo al WGIG como nuestra contribucion. No hay fecha limite, pero creo que lo tendriamos que enviar a fines de marzo, una vez nuestro propia texto finalizado. Que os parece ? saludos desde Ginebra Divina Frau-Meigs Co-ordinacion, familia educacion, ensenanza superior y investigacion PS : en adjunto y solo en ingles, el fichero del WGIG -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux

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[Foundation-l] UK Foundation (was Day 1 Fund Drive Report)
by Scott Keir 20 Feb '05

20 Feb '05

Given the UK support is about 10% of the total support, has there been consideration given to setting up a UK Foundation, to promote Wikimedia and raise funds in the UK? UK law means that for donations to UK charities, either the donor can reclaim the tax they've paid on the donation, or the charity can (so if a donor gives GBP10, the charity can receive a total of GBP12.80). This is obviously more attractive to both donor and charity. There would be practical issues to consider - of administration, legal matters for setting it up, how trustees etc would be decided, and how the donations received from this charity could be put to use for Wikimedia, but I thought it was worth raising, as I haven't seen it yet on this list. (On a related note, has consideration been given to providing a "proper" facility for people to donate via credit or debit card (Visa, Mastercard, Diners etc)? Not everyone has Paypal, and their fees are quite high. If there's going to be this quantity of donations received on a regular basis, the investment in a WorldPay type system might pay off. [I've investigated this for a small UK charity I'm a trustee of, so the issue is fresh in my mind - apologies if this has been discussed before]) > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:43:46 -0800 (PST), Daniel Mayer, Wikimedia CFO > wrote: > > On Day 1 (Friday eastern US timezone since PayPal data are not > available in > UTC) we made $9,939.47 (USD equivalent) through a combination of > PayPal and > MoneyBookers. > > PayPal breakdown: > AUD 314.03 (247.27 USD) > CAD 334.40 (271.58 USD) > EUR 3413.75 (4464.75 USD) > GBP 475.17 (899.77 USD) > JPY 28340 (269 USD) > USD 3424.63 > Total 9576.78 (USD equivalent) Scott Keir scottkeir(a)yahoo.co.uk

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[Foundation-l] wikinews requirement
by Anthere 19 Feb '05

19 Feb '05

So, to summarize Until a little while ago, the only requirement was that 5 people show interest. It did not matter that these 5 were trolls, or were regulars, or even voted 3 months ago. I suggested a change in policy, requiring that amongst these 5 people, at least 2 are regular editors of at least one of our projects. You agreed with this suggestion. One week later, you would like to change it again, and change the 2 regular editors requirement to a at least 2 editors are creating/translating policies on meta. When I object that a project started by 5 totally unknown editors is likely to have problems respecting our basic principles, you answer that the requirement of being a long term editor is not a proof that the editor is well versed in our policy. Though I agree with this statement, I consider it a fallacy. There is much much more chance that an editor having been for a while on a project is aware of our policies, and the fact he might NOT be is NO argument to support people with no experience is better than people with experience. We do have three major points to consider * understanding that the project is a collaboration, that a sysop is not the boss, and that being the sysop of a project absolutely does not mean that the sysop should restrict access to pages such as the main page. * understanding our neutrality policy, which is not always easy for a newbie, and results sometimes in main page being covered with advertisement * understanding our copyright policy; though less visible, it is for wikinews the more tricky one, and very likely the one most likely to get us in trouble. When someone will start a new wikinews, it is VERY likely a wikipedia will already exist in that language, so there is no need to translate ANYTHING. THe editor can just go to the relevant projet language, and COPY the NPOV rules, copy the COPYRIGHT rules. Just copy and past text does not mean this text is understood, nor that it is applied. If you mean by COPYING rules, just going to the english version and copying the rules of the english version, I will object that no project should exist which has no community able to make their own rules. If you do want an example of what I mean, I invite you to visit http://wo.wikipedia.org This is a new project. A group of editors from an african NGO want to work on it. For it to start, one of those guys asked me to be sysop on it (needed for decent start). In his country, french is widely spoken, so he just copied french wikipedia rules. Then, as soon as he was sysop, he put some advertisement for his NGO on the main page, then when the main page was restored to a more neutral situation, he put back the advertisement (in good faith I am sure) and protected the main page. In 24 hours, this editor, who want to nurture a group of at least 5 people, * broke the rule of neutrality (though he had copied them from fr) * broke the rule of collaborative writing (restricting access to main page to him only) * broke the rule of admin just being no more powerful than another editor (in reverting and protecting the page to his preference) For all I know, the text he put on the main page could be under copyright as well. In short, what you are asking is basically that we remove the requirement we just agreed upon, which was frankly not very demanding. Why did you agree on it to immediately remove your agreement ? Anthere- > > * activity shows interest, so avoid missed launches such as the french > wikinews one Actually, it doesn't. French Wikinews would have passed the edit count requirements (haven't checked user duration); as you yourself said, Greudin is a very active user on fr.wikipedia and has pledged support for the French Wikinews, yet he has only made a handful of edits there. Translating/creating policies seems to be a much better test of actual interest in doing work. Once you do that, that shows a commitment to the project. > > * past activity of at least 2 editors on a wikipedia (for example) > indicates that at least 2 editors are aware of our basic principles > and in particular NPOV requirement. What better test could there be for people understanding a policy like NPOV than requiring them to translate it? > Again, the is a security measure. If 5 people, not even one oldby on > one of our project, decide to launch a wikinews with no experience at > all, there is rather high risk that some of our principles are not > respected; I don't see it that way. Just because someone has been on Wikipedia for months doesn't mean that they respect policies at all. Quantity is not quality, and measuring quality is almost impossible while keeping the process scalable and fair. One could even argue that malicious trolls or otherwise harmful users who know how to manipulate policies in their interest are more likely to come from our existing user base. In fact, Wikinews will especially attract people who are fed up with Wikipedia and want to work on another wiki. > and since it is not in a language we necessarily manage, it might go > on for a long time. This is more likely if key policies like NPOV are *not* translated. If we can agree on which parts of our policies are not negotiable, we can make sure that they are in place. One of these policies can even include instructions on what to do if your wiki doesn't follow the Wikimedia spirit (contact stewards etc.). Future projects don't necessarily match our current userbase. To tie the process for creating new language editions directly to that userbase seems needlessly restrictive. Building a small community on Meta and writing key pages before launching the project is also simply good planning -- exactly the kind of thing that could have helped to prevent the current fr.wikinews.org situation, much more so than algorithmic requirements whose actual predictive value is very low, as that experience has shown. Regards, Erik --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

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Wikimedia-l February 2005