Re: [Wikimedia-IN-PUN] [Bug 32669] Why we are going with phonetic as default on mr.wikipedia

Dear All Sorry fot delay from side in replying this discussion thread since my schedules on field work are going to tight.While I do not blame inscript users and supporters for going beyond the given scope and focus  of the discussion since may of them are not aware of earlier discussions we had on Marathi Wikipedia or missing on some of the finer points,still it is my responsibility to reply the same. For inscript supporters I earnestly request to trust in me for my neutral POV,  that I have studied their set of arguments in great detail , I have tried myself to promote and teach inscript personally in field .I have been involved in co-ordinating a yahoogroup called Devnagari and had been studying all aspects of the issues involved since long.That I have studied patterns of mistakes committed by new comers on Marathi Wikipedia in great details. Please do trust in me that every step I intend to take will be in best favour of Marathi Language and marathi language Wikipedia. 1)Why do we need to have Marathi Typing as default system Over the years I have been studying patterns of difficulties encountered by newcomers and anonymous users on Marathi Wikipedia .I have also conducted field surveys during Wikipedia training sessions and the first hurdle encountered availabilty of Marathi Font .Huge number of trail and error edits are happening in roman script Marathi and not because they are trying to type in roman but actually majority thinks that if they start typing it automatically comes in to marathi by phonetic  transliteration.A visit to history of Marathi Wikipedia trail and error Sandbox pageविकिपीडिया:धूळपाटी  speaks for itself The current situation is not only their  edits are getting deleted as spam , by not providing the requisite user friendly support levels we are discouraging great numbers from using marathi typing at all and as marketing background person I know it creats it only helps in creating a negative image and negative publicity To me this amounts to great disservice to Marathi language. (I will be replying some related FAQs ahead in this mail) 2) Default OK but why phonetic and why not inscript a) inscript needs considerable user practice and special time involvement and effort before  using it. Still the majority of users come from Shared computers of offices , educational institutions or Cybercafes or shared computers which  to provide facility to enable Marathi Unicode typing support from authorities does not come easily Second aspect shared computing does not provide for required time besides they usually are not authorised to paste any stickers of Marathi alphabates on computer keyboards they are using. b) When people are trying to write on Marathi Wikipedia they are already in a thought process which demands immidiate expression i.e.result so compelling them for a long inscript training time at that moment is not worth a trying option .Besides in the field I have personally obsrved that compelling people to use inscript only is found to be discouraging the majority. The simmiller view is shared by many who work in field for promotion of marathi unicode typing including Mr.Tushar Pawar of Marathi abhyas Kendra shared similler view point. c)During Wikipedia editing trainings too as a trainer in field time available for training on how to type is too short .We need least number of processess and hurdels during these sessions.And for atleast coming two years numbers of hands on filed training sessions are going to increase phenomenally. d)Actual field surveys have shown that 46% people are using google transliterator 40% using local phonetic transliteration of each of Marathi Website whichever site they go ten percent are using rest of phonetic typing. most of phonetic typing skill is coming to people from their freinds and peers through word of mouth.less than 4%are using inscript.Acually 2-4% usage of inscript also needs to be taken as good news e) In one of my very recent discussions one of earstwhile GIST inscript expert himself claimed to me that now inscript is older than google transliterator and now a days google transliterator and phonetic transliterators are more intelligent,advance and supportive. f) It is not for Wikipedia to promote this or that but make those uitilities available and every body can participate easily without hurdels By taking all sides in to account I hae come to the conclusion that we will use phonetic Narayam as default , if technically possible we will try to limit it for certan popular categories of article pages or we will limit it with Name space and if that also not possible we will try to agree to a time limit for Narayam as default on Marathi Wikipedia . With technical people we will try to find out if we can provide inscript as default on certain trial and error Sandbox page on Marathi Wikipedia. Beyond Marathi Wikipedia I have been advocating for Some Unicode typing competions to build public confidance I have spoken with Marathi Abhyas Kendras Mr.Deepak Pawar and Tech Marathii Group also Some organisation need to take lead on this. I have discussed ceratin ideas with Mr.Rahul Deshmukh fort online typing tutorials for beginners of phonetics as well as  inscript .For inscript I have requested Sushant for developing more UTube presentation about exactly where to place the fingures while typing inscript and he has agreed to it.Once these things are ready we can request various medias and educational bodies to incorporate more aspects of Marathi Computer typing in their programmes. Thanks again in participating in the dscussion Warm Regards -Mahitgar ________________________________ From: Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <mahitgar(a)yahoo.co.in> To: Marathi Wikipedia <mr-wiki(a)yahoogroups.com>om>; marathi opensourse <MarathiOpenSource(a)yahoogroups.com>om>; deonagari <deonagari(a)yahoogroups.com>om>; "Wikimedia-IN-PUN(a)lists.wikimedia.org" <Wikimedia-IN-PUN(a)lists.wikimedia.org>rg>; mumbai list <wikimedia-in-mum(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Cc: Abhay Natu <anatu(a)yahoo.com>om>; Ajay Garg <ajaygarg2006(a)gmail.com>om>; "anand.katikar(a)gmail.com" <anand.katikar(a)gmail.com>om>; V Narsikar <v.narsikar(a)gmail.com>om>; "bhashapune(a)gmail.com" <bhashapune(a)gmail.com>om>; PRATIK DIXIT <ppdixit(a)gmail.com>om>; Dr Anand Padhye <adpadhye(a)gmail.com>om>; Sushant Devlekar <sushant.devlekar(a)gmail.com>om>; "head.marathi(a)bamu.net" <head.marathi(a)bamu.net>et>; "iamharshal(a)yahoo.com" <iamharshal(a)yahoo.com>om>; "info(a)pujasoft.net" <info(a)pujasoft.net>et>; "info(a)vishwakosh.org.in" <info(a)vishwakosh.org.in>in>; Sudhnwa Joglekar <sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com>om>; Omkar Joshi <josh9383(a)gmail.com>om>; Mandar Kulkarni <mvkulkarni23(a)yahoo.co.uk>uk>; Saleel Kulkarni <saleelk(a)gmail.com>om>; Kaustubh Samudra <ksamudra(a)gmail.com>om>; Mandar Kulkarni <mvkulkarni23(a)yahoo.co.uk>uk>; Mahitgar From Marathi Wikipedia <mahitgar(a)gmail.com>om>; Madhav Shirvalkar <mshirvalkar(a)gmail.com>om>; "msrkiran(a)gmail.com" <msrkiran(a)gmail.com>om>; shantanu oak <shantanu.oak(a)gmail.com>om>; Subhash Pawar <sypawar(a)gmail.com>om>; "prabodh1987(a)gmail.com" <prabodh1987(a)gmail.com>om>; "puremarathi(a)gmail.com" <puremarathi(a)gmail.com>om>; "rahuldeshmukh101(a)gmail.com" <rahuldeshmukh101(a)gmail.com>om>; "rahuldeshmukh101(a)gmail.com" <rahuldeshmukh101(a)gmail.com>om>; Rahuldeshmukh101 <rahuldeshmukh101(a)rediffmail.com>om>; "rama(a)cdacb.ernet.in" <rama(a)cdacb.ernet.in>in>; vishvakosh nirmiti mandal Wai <vishwai(a)yahoo.com>om>; Amit Yadav <amityadav8(a)gmail.com>om>; "santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com" <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com>om>; v padhye <v.padhye(a)gmail.com>om>; "atultulshi(a)gmail.com" <atultulshi(a)gmail.com>om>; ""Abhishek Suryawanshi"" <abhi.surya2020(a)gmail.com>om>; "harshad.gune(a)gmail.com" <harshad.gune(a)gmail.com>om>; ""Nikhil Kadadi"" <nikhil(a)techmarathi.com>om>; ""Pallavi Kelkar"" <pallavi(a)techmarathi.com>om>; ""sagar markal"" <shree.sagar007(a)gmail.com>om>; "milind(a)thebhandarakars.com" <milind(a)thebhandarakars.com> Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 10:49 AM Subject: Fw: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia Dear All From Marathi Language Wikipedia we had requested mediawiki technical team to make a phonetic Marathi font  transliteration system default for all anonymous users and new editors who have not completed edits upto 500 edits  just simply because if we study edits of new comers and anonymous users it seems that they usualy do not understand how to enable present optional transliteration system. the Narayam extension as updated for Marathi Language is in beta version available for testing attranslatewiki.net . We have received following reply to our  Our technical request  which is  submitted at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669 This is for your information and discussion after the discussion we will put the information on Marathi Wikipedia poll page and confirm apropriate marathi wikipedia community decesion. Following forwarded reply is self explanatory, We seek openions from all of you so this is for your information and discussion .Please keep this discussion in english so non marathi development team members can understand our discussion. Regards mahitgar ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "bugzilla-daemon(a)wikimedia.org" <bugzilla-daemon(a)wikimedia.org> To: mahitgar(a)yahoo.co.in Sent: Monday, 12 December 2011 12:35 PM Subject: [Bug 32669] Enable Narayam on mr.wikipedia https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32669 --- Comment #2 from Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com> 2011-12-12 07:05:32 UTC --- (In reply to comment #0) The extension is available at translatewiki.net , and we marked as beta till we get feedback from the community that it is stable can be enabled in mr.wikipedia. So please test and give us confirmation that it works as expected. system  for all unregistered users We can make Narayam enabled by default. But the extension does not check the edits count. This should be ok. The extension will be enabled in all editable fields. Transliteration is the default one. We don't support all the mediiawiki skins. Extension  supports Vector, Monobook, Modern skins. user category to New User Creation Extension does not distinguish uses based on any category. No, The extension does not provide this feature. If the community is ok with the extension after verifying it at translatewiki.net,  please inform us here. We will enable it in mr wikis in the next i18n deployment. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You reported the bug.