The programme submissions process we're using is one that we inherited from previous Wikimanias, but given that this event is not considered a formal, research-led event, and also frankly the rate of change of the world, having people submit sessions six months in advance seems surprising.

Lodewijks, I interpret your submission as basically a plea to run a submission process again but closer to the conference date. Would you agree that this is the core of your proposal?

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia * twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:27, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

Hi,

with the submission deadline approaching, I wasn't able to find many discussion proposals (not counting panel discussions) where the audience is the main participant, and there is no particular speaker or expert. In a wiki-conference, that is always a surprise to me. I recall from past years it was always particularly hard to find people who are interested enough in a topic, expert enough, willing to lead a discussion, certain to visit Wikimania and able to think of it months in advance all at the same time - in other words: people who could propose a discussion session.

So on Wikimedia, we say then: so fix it. Well, that is what I tried with an unconventional proposal: reserve a room for a full day, give me some flexibility and help, and together with a co-discussion facilitator I would be happy to volunteer to organize a full day of discussions around community topics.

I would really like your input on this idea. You can find the proposal on https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Discussion_Room .

Especially input would be welcome on:

• Suggestions on more/better good example discussion topics
• Suggestions how to organize this consultation
• Suggestions on the discussion format
• Whether this should be one full day, or two half days
• Who would be a good second discussion facilitator :)

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Lodewijk

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

I am told that, historically, there's a massive rush of submissions in the last day or two. Let's wait and see what the quality of the submissions is like, we may be surprised.

I am keen to innovate in programming with this event; an unconference track is a nod towards this, but there may be better formats, so I will ensure that space is carved out for some alternative programming style.

Otherwise, there are large open discussion areas available during the event anyway. Traditionally the purpose of an early programme is mostly to promote topics of interest to encourage people to attend the conference, but with online discussion we could easily discuss the topics to death between now and then, and travelling all that way just to hear it in real life audio seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Then, for a live event, perhaps the value is in the serendipity of dipping in and out of sessions and finding out about topics you didn't know you were interested in. Or maybe it's just in seeing faces, shaking hands and breaking bread.

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia * twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:52, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

Hi Edward,

not entirely, but it would be a step in the right direction. I'm volunteering to help run that process and lead the discussions on the day itself (if certain conditions can be fulfilled, which I dont expect to be a problem). But also, I'm suggesting to turn the process around a bit. If there are no proposals for discussions, lets find discussions and bring them to the table. Lets reserve a full day worth of discussions and just make sure we find the discussions worth it :)

Thanks for thinking along!

Lodewijk

2014-03-26 8:44 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:

...

The programme submissions process we're using is one that we inherited from previous Wikimanias, but given that this event is not considered a formal, research-led event, and also frankly the rate of change of the world, having people submit sessions six months in advance seems surprising.

Lodewijks, I interpret your submission as basically a plea to run a submission process again but closer to the conference date. Would you agree that this is the core of your proposal?

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia

• twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572

133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:27, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

...

Hi,

with the submission deadline approaching, I wasn't able to find many discussion proposals (not counting panel discussions) where the audience is the main participant, and there is no particular speaker or expert. In a wiki-conference, that is always a surprise to me. I recall from past years it was always particularly hard to find people who are interested enough in a topic, expert enough, willing to lead a discussion, certain to visit Wikimania and able to think of it months in advance all at the same time - in other words: people who could propose a discussion session.

So on Wikimedia, we say then: so fix it. Well, that is what I tried with an unconventional proposal: reserve a room for a full day, give me some flexibility and help, and together with a co-discussion facilitator I would be happy to volunteer to organize a full day of discussions around community topics.

I would really like your input on this idea. You can find the proposal on https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Discussion_Room.

Especially input would be welcome on:

• Suggestions on more/better good example discussion topics
• Suggestions how to organize this consultation
• Suggestions on the discussion format
• Whether this should be one full day, or two half days
• Who would be a good second discussion facilitator :)

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Lodewijk

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Hi Lodewijk, I like the idea of discussions that are more structured and well-known before the conference.

Re: Taiwan, which open space idea were you describing that didn't work? Was that the lightning talks or something else?

-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:

Hey Edward,

sorry for the delay in responding - I was a bit overflowing with stuff that needed to happen irl. Sorry to see too that there were so few other responses at all to my questions for input (two on the talk page).

In some way, my proposal is an experiment of course. This isn't meant as 'unconference' or anything as drastic, but rather as a way to offer a set of structured and facilitated discussions without fixating it too much in advance. Your suggestions go much further even than my proposal - I don't want to let it come to serendipity, I would really like to help ensure somehow that we can include the discussion topics in the program material printed - so lets make sure we communicate those deadlines with each other.

I would be happy if you (or anyone) would help to populate the room with good discussion topics. However, I feel we need a dedicated space /in the program/ for this - I don't have good experiences with the open space kind of idea that was experimented with in Taipei.

I hope we can make this work together!

Best, Lodewijk

2014-03-26 9:06 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:

I am told that, historically, there's a massive rush of submissions in the

...

last day or two. Let's wait and see what the quality of the submissions is like, we may be surprised.

I am keen to innovate in programming with this event; an unconference track is a nod towards this, but there may be better formats, so I will ensure that space is carved out for some alternative programming style.

Otherwise, there are large open discussion areas available during the event anyway. Traditionally the purpose of an early programme is mostly to promote topics of interest to encourage people to attend the conference, but with online discussion we could easily discuss the topics to death between now and then, and travelling all that way just to hear it in real life audio seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Then, for a live event, perhaps the value is in the serendipity of dipping in and out of sessions and finding out about topics you didn't know you were interested in. Or maybe it's just in seeing faces, shaking hands and breaking bread.

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia

• twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572

133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:52, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

...

Hi Edward,

not entirely, but it would be a step in the right direction. I'm volunteering to help run that process and lead the discussions on the day itself (if certain conditions can be fulfilled, which I dont expect to be a problem). But also, I'm suggesting to turn the process around a bit. If there are no proposals for discussions, lets find discussions and bring them to the table. Lets reserve a full day worth of discussions and just make sure we find the discussions worth it :)

Thanks for thinking along!

Lodewijk

2014-03-26 8:44 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:

...

The programme submissions process we're using is one that we inherited from previous Wikimanias, but given that this event is not considered a formal, research-led event, and also frankly the rate of change of the world, having people submit sessions six months in advance seems surprising.

Lodewijks, I interpret your submission as basically a plea to run a submission process again but closer to the conference date. Would you agree that this is the core of your proposal?

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia

• twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572

133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:27, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

...

Hi,

with the submission deadline approaching, I wasn't able to find many discussion proposals (not counting panel discussions) where the audience is the main participant, and there is no particular speaker or expert. In a wiki-conference, that is always a surprise to me. I recall from past years it was always particularly hard to find people who are interested enough in a topic, expert enough, willing to lead a discussion, certain to visit Wikimania and able to think of it months in advance all at the same time - in other words: people who could propose a discussion session.

So on Wikimedia, we say then: so fix it. Well, that is what I tried with an unconventional proposal: reserve a room for a full day, give me some flexibility and help, and together with a co-discussion facilitator I would be happy to volunteer to organize a full day of discussions around community topics.

I would really like your input on this idea. You can find the proposal on https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Discussion_Room.

Especially input would be welcome on:

• Suggestions on more/better good example discussion topics
• Suggestions how to organize this consultation
• Suggestions on the discussion format
• Whether this should be one full day, or two half days
• Who would be a good second discussion facilitator :)

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Lodewijk

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

I understand Lodewijk's idea as an option to include more substance discussions as a kind of addition to the speaker/audience situation we have in most sessions. And that should be worth thinking about. The larger the conference becomes the harder it is to find session formats that are different from typical conferences but better reflecting the wish to have discussions like those on our mailing lists. But face to face.

I think it's worth a try. There is nothing risky in it. If it is not attractive for the attendees, the room will stay empty. If it is, we'll see vivid interaction. This is something we can't assess from our personal preferences.

Alice.

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:

Hi Lodewijk, I like the idea of discussions that are more structured and well-known before the conference.

Re: Taiwan, which open space idea were you describing that didn't work? Was that the lightning talks or something else?

-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:

...

Hey Edward,

sorry for the delay in responding - I was a bit overflowing with stuff that needed to happen irl. Sorry to see too that there were so few other responses at all to my questions for input (two on the talk page).

In some way, my proposal is an experiment of course. This isn't meant as 'unconference' or anything as drastic, but rather as a way to offer a set of structured and facilitated discussions without fixating it too much in advance. Your suggestions go much further even than my proposal - I don't want to let it come to serendipity, I would really like to help ensure somehow that we can include the discussion topics in the program material printed - so lets make sure we communicate those deadlines with each other.

I would be happy if you (or anyone) would help to populate the room with good discussion topics. However, I feel we need a dedicated space /in the program/ for this - I don't have good experiences with the open space kind of idea that was experimented with in Taipei.

I hope we can make this work together!

Best, Lodewijk

2014-03-26 9:06 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:

I am told that, historically, there's a massive rush of submissions in

...

the last day or two. Let's wait and see what the quality of the submissions is like, we may be surprised.

I am keen to innovate in programming with this event; an unconference track is a nod towards this, but there may be better formats, so I will ensure that space is carved out for some alternative programming style.

Otherwise, there are large open discussion areas available during the event anyway. Traditionally the purpose of an early programme is mostly to promote topics of interest to encourage people to attend the conference, but with online discussion we could easily discuss the topics to death between now and then, and travelling all that way just to hear it in real life audio seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Then, for a live event, perhaps the value is in the serendipity of dipping in and out of sessions and finding out about topics you didn't know you were interested in. Or maybe it's just in seeing faces, shaking hands and breaking bread.

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:52, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

...

Hi Edward,

not entirely, but it would be a step in the right direction. I'm volunteering to help run that process and lead the discussions on the day itself (if certain conditions can be fulfilled, which I dont expect to be a problem). But also, I'm suggesting to turn the process around a bit. If there are no proposals for discussions, lets find discussions and bring them to the table. Lets reserve a full day worth of discussions and just make sure we find the discussions worth it :)

Thanks for thinking along!

Lodewijk

2014-03-26 8:44 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:

...

The programme submissions process we're using is one that we inherited from previous Wikimanias, but given that this event is not considered a formal, research-led event, and also frankly the rate of change of the world, having people submit sessions six months in advance seems surprising.

Lodewijks, I interpret your submission as basically a plea to run a submission process again but closer to the conference date. Would you agree that this is the core of your proposal?

*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 26 March 2014 16:27, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:

...

Hi,

with the submission deadline approaching, I wasn't able to find many discussion proposals (not counting panel discussions) where the audience is the main participant, and there is no particular speaker or expert. In a wiki-conference, that is always a surprise to me. I recall from past years it was always particularly hard to find people who are interested enough in a topic, expert enough, willing to lead a discussion, certain to visit Wikimania and able to think of it months in advance all at the same time - in other words: people who could propose a discussion session.

So on Wikimedia, we say then: so fix it. Well, that is what I tried with an unconventional proposal: reserve a room for a full day, give me some flexibility and help, and together with a co-discussion facilitator I would be happy to volunteer to organize a full day of discussions around community topics.

I would really like your input on this idea. You can find the proposal on https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Discussion_Room.

Especially input would be welcome on:

• Suggestions on more/better good example discussion topics
• Suggestions how to organize this consultation
• Suggestions on the discussion format
• Whether this should be one full day, or two half days
• Who would be a good second discussion facilitator :)

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Lodewijk

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l