the idea is moving not just in distance but also in time that way travel will be shared more equally the time shift creates new opportunities for other people to access the event at low cost, ok 6 hours maybe too much but o hours has a serious potential to introduce bias....

the idea is to ensure that Wikimania isnt concentrated around Europe/North America for an extended period ie London,  New York, Barbados, Paris, Washington, Warsaw, Berlin, Toronto, Prague, Madrid, Boston

Australia would already be exculded for a number of years(at least 6) under this new process if an event is held in China,if we going to dump a transparent system for a rotation the rotation which is already bias needs to ensure that their arent further failings that will divide the community

On 6 October 2015 at 16:58, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
OK, great that you like it - but what is your argument for it? I get the arguments for measuring distance in flight cost rather than time, and I get the reasoning that conferences shouldn't be too close together. But why should a conference in China disqualify Australia? Or why should London disqualify New York? Or even Moscow? 

Before we start to come up with all kind of random reasonings: focus on the basics please. We want the conference to cover multiple places, be relatively as cheap as possible and also be fun to attend. 

Did anyone do a calculation whether holding it in an expensive city (say, London) with cheaper flights actually /is/ cheaper than holding it in a cheap city in Asia (say, Delhi or Mumbai)? And then I don't mean WMF-budget wise, but total costs: including the costs by all affiliates, and the costs privately paid for by the volunteers. I recall being positively surprised that there was very little difference between India and Berlin for the chapters meeting...

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:10 AM, Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
I like the idea of distance as measure to choose the next location, but that should also be coupled with a timezone  factor +- 6 hours at a minimum as well... 

Wikimania still needs a local group to volunteers who  understand the local language and customs, it needs their enthusiasm and energy to keep it on the front burner locally

On 5 October 2015 at 16:33, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree that we should make rotation explicit, but that doesn't need to be done by region. We could achieve the same by requiring each bid to be a long haul flight from the previous one, and  a medium haul flight from the one before. Under the region proposal we could have Amman in Asia, Cairo in Africa and Athens in Europe all within four years. Or El Paso, Texas  one year and_Juarez, Chihuahua the next.

I suggest that instead we make the rotation explicit by distance, 4000 miles from the preceding venue, 3,000 miles from the one before that, 2,000 from the one three years prior and 1000 from the one four years earlier. We should also have a rule that prioritises countries that welcome such events with a more open visa policy.

Also if the Foundation wants to get better value for money, the venues could be determined through a commercial evaluation looking for the best value locations in the world regardless of whether or not there are locally organised wikimedians. Then get the programme determined by global volunteers. It wouldn't be too much of a burden on scholarship attendees if they got an email with their flight details asking them to volunteer to moderate or video a session.

Jonathan 


On 4 Oct 2015, at 21:57, Ralf Roletschek <ralf@roletschek.de> wrote:

Yes, thats right. +1

2015-10-04 22:55 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com>:
What I like about the explicit rotation:
* more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
* more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time spent on (concurring) bids;
* more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage, less "let's beat continent X";
* more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest groups of people in the farthest places.

Nemo


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