Probably I am saying the same and this means to don’t use categories in this discussion.

Is not it clear?

Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario
Skype: valdelli
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch

From: Philip Kopetzky
Sent: 30 July 2018 09:01
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

Guys, can you please take any discussion among you white males to Wikimedia-l if you still feel the need to discuss this amongst you? You can't force a public debate, especially wheb Asaf and Lilli have already stated the obvious. 

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 08:39 Ilario Valdelli, <ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

Hi all,

I comment here because this reply is important and I agree with it but I would also stress that 75% of the women being harassed probably are in position where someone takes an advantage of his position to create around these women a forced silence and the possibility of blackmail. But it’s not the case that started this thread.

To use correctly the statistics, the numbers must be understood correctly because the Fundamental Rights Agency is reporting about “women in qualified professions or top management” and it means in an uncomfortable position.

In all this discussion what strikes me is the exaggerated reaction of both parties.

The use of the safe space policy is good and is welcome but this policy has a value where it’s applied in a correct way and there is not an exaggerated use.

And yes, “exaggeration” is what I would stress now in the wikiverse.

I already said that probably it would have been sufficient to ask “kindly” to don’t be touched and to use an escalation or to use the safe space policy when this behavior would have been recurrent and constant after this first warning.

I suggest to don’t exaggerate because if we would solve a discrimination introducing discrimination, or we would look at this case as an example of inappropriate behavior on women probably we have to look to the history of the wolf and the lamb of Esopo.

The principle of the safe space policy is good and it has been created mainly to protect the freedom of opinion, but I suggest to take care to don’t introduce the difference of gender or of race or of religion etc. Because every time we gives an advantage or a disadvantage to someone using these categories, there is always a part which is discriminated.

Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario
Skype: valdelli
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch

From: Lilli Iliev
Sent: 29 July 2018 19:05
To: wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

Hi all,

I decided to contribute to this thread, however not in order to elaborate on my personal opinion on this specific case. This would be inappropriate, as we do not have sufficient information about it and also out of respect for the people involved.

Instead, I want to comment, because I feel strongly about the consequences this discussion may have - not only on the perception of the friendly space policy and its effectiveness, but also on people who may need to refer to the policy in the future.

This past Wikimania was very much about the importance of representing all people in our movement and about finding ways for them to have a voice, to be heard – and to feel safe to contribute and participate.

One reliable way to silence people when they experience harassment as well as keeping others from speaking out, is to have them experience how other, non-involved people, would immediately have an opinion on what happened and judge the case or the person in question. This is what has happened here. It is furthermore, absolutely out of proportion to weigh ones personal irritation about some members being potentially more aware and sensitive of this topic, against a context in which harassment and violence is not the exception, but everyday reality.

Policies and measures like codes of conduct etc. exist for a reason. Invisible to many, harassment does happen, it happens a lot, it happens also amongst communities with great, humanitarian goals. In the world most of us live in, offensive or invasive behavior has no tangible consequences for those who commit it, but severe effects on those who experience it. According to the Fundamental Rights Agency, 75% of women in qualified professions or top management jobs have been sexually harassed[1]. UN Women has confirmed that there is a big problem with underreporting when it comes to these cases.

Efforts like the friendly space policies aim to contribute to establish a societal climate where people feel safe and that makes all people aware, that inappropriate behavior has consequences.

Publicly judging and ridiculing efforts to find a process, suitable to make all people feel safe, heard, and, if necessary, taken seriously at events, can set back efforts of creating such a process. Measures like friendly space policies are not self-evident, they are an hard fought for achievement. Seeing, how fast those efforts are being called into question, is quite disheartening and worries me a lot.

I am very grateful to work for and with a movement that has agreed on trying to make all people feel welcome and respected. I hope that we will keep fostering this together.

best

Lilli

[1] http://www.equineteurope.org/IMG/pdf/fra_9dec2014.pdf

--

Lilli Iliev

Projektmanagerin Politik

project manager public policy

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
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