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Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 6:03:41 PM
Subject: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 60, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Israel = apartheid (Tomer Shalev)
2. Re: Israel = apartheid (matthew satchwell)
3. Re: Israel = apartheid (Nathan)
4. Re: Israel = apartheid (Gerald A)
5. Re: Israel = apartheid (Federico Leva (Nemo))
6. Re: Israel = apartheid (matthew satchwell)
7. Re: Israel = apartheid (Austin
Hair)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:27:40 +0200
From: Tomer Shalev <
shalev.tomer@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
<
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
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Hello Matthew,
You are most welcome to come to
Haifa<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haifa#Demographics>and experience a
city which is one of the last places in the middle-east
where Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bah?'?s, Druze and people from other
religious live in peace and harmony together. I would like to suggest that
you accommodate in Haifa University
dormitories<
http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation/Dorms#Haifa_University_dorms>,
and conduct your own unbiased demographic survey to challenge your axioms of
apartheid.
I advise you to extend your stay in Israel, and visit Nazareth and other
Arab cities in Israel, and also cities in the west bank: Jericho, Nablus,
Bethlehem and east Jerusalem. I encourage you to be impressed by the level
of freedom, education and economics of people living there, and to compare
it to
the level of those living in other counties in the Middle-East and
Africa.
I don't want to flame this discussion further, but as a Haifa citizen I
couldn't leave this unanswered.
Regards,
Tomer Shalev
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:50 PM, matthew satchwell
<
mattsatchwell@gmail.com>wrote:
> Please dont hold you conference in Haifa
> If so I will be obliged to boycott you
> I was brought up in South Africa
>
> --
> Matthew Satchwell
> Box 217
> Riebeek Kasteel
> 7307
> 083 6610220
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:51:46 +0200
From: matthew satchwell <
mattsatchwell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
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wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
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Hi Tomer
Are you telling me that Palestinians from the West Bank will be able to
attend the conference unimpeded by the IDF at the apartheid wall?
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Tomer Shalev <
shalev.tomer@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hello Matthew,
>
> You are most welcome to come to Haifa<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haifa#Demographics>and experience a city which is one of the last places in the middle-east
> where
Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bah?'?s, Druze and people from other
> religious live in peace and harmony together. I would like to suggest that
> you accommodate in Haifa University dormitories<
http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation/Dorms#Haifa_University_dorms>,
> and conduct your own unbiased demographic survey to challenge your axioms of
> apartheid.
>
> I advise you to extend your stay in Israel, and visit Nazareth and other
> Arab cities in Israel, and also cities in the west bank: Jericho, Nablus,
> Bethlehem and east Jerusalem. I encourage you to be impressed by the level
> of freedom, education and economics of people living there, and to compare
> it to the level of those living in other counties in the Middle-East and
> Africa.
>
> I don't
want to flame this discussion further, but as a Haifa citizen I
> couldn't leave this unanswered.
>
> Regards,
> Tomer Shalev
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:50 PM, matthew satchwell <
>
mattsatchwell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please dont hold you conference in Haifa
>> If so I will be obliged to boycott you
>> I was brought up in South Africa
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Satchwell
>> Box 217
>> Riebeek Kasteel
>> 7307
>> 083 6610220
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
--
Matthew Satchwell
Box 217
Riebeek Kasteel
7307
083 6610220
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:02:59 -0400
From: Nathan <
nawrich@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
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On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:51 AM, matthew satchwell
<
mattsatchwell@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tomer
> Are you telling me that Palestinians from the West Bank will be able to
> attend the conference?unimpeded by the IDF at the apartheid wall?
>
Did you happen to object when Wikimania was held in a corrupt, violent
police state ruled by a dictator? Or a police state ruled by a
single-party oligarchy? I don't recall hearing from you about the lack
of freedom in those countries.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:18:26 -0400
From: Gerald A <
geraldablists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
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Hello,
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:51 AM, matthew satchwell
<
mattsatchwell@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Are you telling me that Palestinians from the West Bank will be able to
> attend the conference unimpeded by the IDF at the apartheid wall?
>
I'll AGF and trust that you missed the last time this was brought up, when
the Organizers said they would do their utmost to ensure anyone who sought
to attend would be allowed to do so, as
well as extending invitations to
persons who might be able to get the word out about the conference.
I will also say that you seem to have scored a massive fail on the AGF, by
not once but _twice_ using loaded language to advance what seems to be a
clear political agenda.
Kudos to the organizers for trying to steer a fine line and attempting to
overcome the political issues and bring people together.
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:21:07 +0200
From: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <
nemowiki@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
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4D947FC3.3020703@gmail.com>
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Tomer Shalev, 31/03/2011 14:27:
> I advise you to extend your stay in Israel, and visit Nazareth and other
> Arab cities in Israel, and also cities in the west bank: Jericho,
> Nablus, Bethlehem and east Jerusalem.[...]
I'm not very comfortable at discussing uner this confrontational
subject, but anyway, how sure are you of this, or rather, how easy do
you consider it? I definitely want to do so,
but e.g. the Italian
Foreign Affairs Ministry advises to alert Israelian embassies and local
organizations before visiting such areas because Italian visitors are
often rejected at the borders before or after visiting them.[1]
Nemo
[1]
http://www.viaggiaresicuri.it/?israelehttp://www.viaggiaresicuri.it/?id=275------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:23:07 +0200
From: matthew satchwell <
mattsatchwell@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
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wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
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This is the thing with Zionists, a questions is not answered, instead a
tirade of rhetoric, except I read from your response that you do accept that
there is a lack of freedom in Israel. (this is a start)
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Nathan <
nawrich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:51 AM, matthew satchwell
> <
mattsatchwell@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Tomer
> > Are you telling me that Palestinians
from the West Bank will be able to
> > attend the conference unimpeded by the IDF at the apartheid wall?
> >
>
> Did you happen to object when Wikimania was held in a corrupt, violent
> police state ruled by a dictator? Or a police state ruled by a
> single-party oligarchy? I don't recall hearing from you about the lack
> of freedom in those countries.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
--
Matthew Satchwell
Box 217
Riebeek Kasteel
7307
083 6610220
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:03:39 +0200
From: Austin Hair <
adhair@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Israel = apartheid
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
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wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
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charset=UTF-8
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:23 PM, matthew satchwell
<
mattsatchwell@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the thing with Zionists, a questions is not answered, instead a
> tirade of rhetoric, except I read from your response that you?do?accept that
> there is a lack of freedom in Israel. (this is a start)
I want to start by apologizing to the other members of this list for
feeding this.
You talk about a lack of freedom, Matthew, but I have to wonder about
your definition. I heard nothing from you when we held Wikimania in
the following countries:
2005: Frankfurt, Germany, where you can be arrested for giving a Nazi
salute in public or drawing a swastika.
2006: Cambridge, Massachusetts, where you can be held without trial on
terrorism charges.
2007: Taipei, Taiwan, where you can be held
without trial for any
reason, and with which most attendees' countries have no diplomatic
relations whatsoever.
2008: Alexandria, Egypt, which was a police state until just a few weeks ago.
Argentina and Poland are also not exactly bastions of freedom, and
there were visa issues with both conferences. That's not unreasonable,
though, since every country on the planet has visa obstacles with at
least one other country.
Oh, wait, that's not true. There is one, and only one: the Maldives,
where you can be arrested for not being Muslim.
Austin
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