Hi Manfred, meanwhile Wikimedia Ukraine has decided not to participate in the international contest. Doing nothing seems like the easiest thing to do, but long-term it damages the relationship with everyone involved, because there is no framework to orient themselves on. I'm also failing to imagine the international jury awarding any prizes to Russia, given the logistical complexity, so while they can participate, promoting Russian pictures (as Wikimedia Ukraine points out) would not go down well publicly. Best, Philip On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 at 23:28, Manfred Werner (WMAT) < manfred.werner(a)wikimedia.at&gt; wrote:

Hi all, Thanks for your support expressed to Ukraine. To be clear, the Ukrainian team has not argued for barring volunteers from Russia to participate in WLM. What the team has been opposing is consideration of top Russian photos as potential international winners. The argumentation was detailed in a separate letter, so I won’t recount it here. To this end, the case of Wiki Loves Earth this year has been much more acceptable to the Ukrainian community – to sum it up briefly, the Russian team did hold a local competition, but they did not submit photos to the international stage. (Admittedly, Wiki Loves Earth is different by virtue of the fact that the international team originates from Ukraine, which might have prompted Russian organizers to suggest such a course of action). I agree that we as the international community need to work to create some basic criteria for cases such as this and not rely solely on ad-hoc country-specific decisions (though borderline cases will always exist and we'll need to remain flexible). The Ukrainian community indeed doesn’t have the capacity to work out a draft itself – it’s hard enough to support the most basic tasks – but we certainly can be a part of the conversation. Best Regards Anton Protsiuk (in my personal capacity) On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 12:05 PM effe iets anders &lt;effeietsanders(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Interpretation is more complex. Russia is destroying Ukraine's landmarks and cultural heritage as part of its methods to wage war. For example, they have been burning the archives of the Stalin era human rights crimes. Another highly problematic thing is that Russia is systematically stealing cultural heritage and other properties from the areas which they have occupied. For example, they stole scientific equipment from Tšernobyl or art from the museums. At the same time, if we highlight the cultural heritage of Russia, we are not just highlighting the volunteer work but Russia's national achievements and imperialism. The participation can be exploited as part of Russian propaganda even if the organizers or Wikimedia movement doesn't mean it so. Br, -- Kimmo Virtanen, Zache (organizer of WLM Finland) On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:46 PM Bodhisattwa &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Rubén, > > I find the decision of WLM international team completely reasonable to not > exclude Russian photographs from the competition. > > Also, WLM is not only a photography competiton, it's a way to digitally > preserve heritage. Digital conversation has inverse relationship with > destruction of war. > > Apart from Ukraine, there are conflicts, invasions and wars happening in > the Middle East, Africa, Asia Pacific and other regions. There had been > many in the past and surely there will be more in the future. WLM need not > have to be involved in all these geopolitical complexities and take sides, > rather if it can bridge gaps among people who are in conflicting countries > by including them all, it can rather play that significant role instead of > excluding and dividing them further. > > Regards, > Bodhisattwa > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 18:33 Rodelar &lt;rodelarwiki(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> The Wiki Loves Monuments international team has been asked if photographs >> from Russia should be allowed or excluded from participating in this year's >> international contest. We have been in contact with the organising teams of >> Wiki Loves Monuments from Ukraine and from Russia to discuss this and to >> find a solution. >> >> We greatly appreciate that the team from Ukraine has organized the local >> edition of the competition while there is war in their country! We >> understand that there are reservations against seeing images from Ukraine >> and Russia presented side by side in the galleries of nominated or winning >> pictures. >> >> The volunteer team organising Wiki Loves Monuments Russia emphasizes to >> have no ties to the Russian government or the Russian Wikimedia affiliate. >> They are submitting the 10 finalist images to the international final round >> of Wiki Loves Monuments 2022, but the occupied areas, including Crimea and >> Sevastopol, have been excluded from the Wiki Loves monuments campaign. >> Also, in Russia there is no freedom of panorama for works of art. This >> excludes, in fact, any images of monuments and statues erected since World >> War II, and which for example glorify the war, from being legally uploaded >> to Wikimedia Commons. >> >> If images from Russia are excluded because of the war in Ukraine, this >> could, without being based on a rule for the competition, set a precedent >> for other territories where there is war around the world. Rules would have >> to found, before deciding case by case, if a country should not be allowed >> to send its nominations to Wiki Loves Monuments international. >> >> With these considerations in mind, the WLM organising team does not see a >> reason to exclude the submission of Russian finalists images to the >> international final round. >> >> On behalf of the WLM 2022 organising team, >> >> Rubén Ojeda >> >> International jury coordinator, Wiki Loves Monuments 2022 >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikilovesmonuments-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikilovesmonuments-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Hi, At the same time, if we highlight the cultural heritage of Russia, we are Let us find the red line then about when to bar volunteers from a country to participate in WLM. Shall we exclude the USA which has invaded middle eastern countries many times in the past and still has strong forces there or any NATO countries which left Afghanistan giving it back to the Taliban who had destroyed the world heritage site of Bamiyan in the past? Shall we exclude China because of its policy towards Taiwan or Tibet or shall we exclude Turkiye because of its engagement with the Kurds and Syrians in the recent past or Saudi Arabia because of the bombardments in Yemen? Shall we exclude both Israel and Palestine because of what is happening there? Shall we exclude some of the African countries because of their civil wars which have destroyed the livelihoods of many people there? Or shall we exclude all the past colonial nations of Europe like Britain, France, Nederlands, Belgium, Spain, Germany, Denmark, Italy etc. which have committed horrible atrocities to more than half of the world and looted their culture and heritage to store in their museums and still not paid reparation or even asked for forgiveness? Or shall we exclude the countries participating in the two World Wars or countries with nuclear warheads? There are allies on all sides, shall we exclude them too? I guess, if we start excluding, there will be almost no countries in the world left to participate in WLM. We all are strongly against any war and invasion and we all have deep empathy towards the people of Ukraine for their hardships in these difficult times, but we also have to be empathetic to other parts of the world which are facing hardships from wars from the present or from the past and not forget about them or their lost culture. WLM is a photographic competition to preserve built heritage from around the world digitally, let's keep it that way and not make it a forum for geopolitical debates. We need not want to open up a Pandora's box and fight with each other because our governments are doing so. Regards, Bodhisattwa On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 11:43, Kimmo Virtanen &lt;kimmo.virtanen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Geopolitical differences and conflicts among governments should never be a >> factor to sanction and obstruct volunteer activities from those nations. We >> need to remind ourselves that the government and the Wikimedia volunteers >> or affiliates of a country are different entities and the Wikimedia >> communities cannot be held responsible for the action of their governments. >> Russian heritage photographers have nothing to do with the Ukraine war and >> they have equal rights to have their photographs compete and judged like >> the other participating countries. > > > Interpretation is more complex. Russia is destroying Ukraine's landmarks > and cultural heritage as part of its methods to wage war. > > For example, they have been burning the archives of the Stalin era human > rights crimes. Another highly problematic thing is that Russia is > systematically stealing cultural heritage and other properties from the > areas which they have occupied. For example, they stole scientific > equipment from Tšernobyl or art from the museums. > > At the same time, if we highlight the cultural heritage of Russia, we are > Br, > -- Kimmo Virtanen, Zache (organizer of WLM Finland) > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:46 PM Bodhisattwa &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Hi Rubén, >> >> I find the decision of WLM international team completely reasonable to >> not exclude Russian photographs from the competition. >> >> Geopolitical differences and conflicts among governments should never be >> a factor to sanction and obstruct volunteer activities from those nations. >> We need to remind ourselves that the government and the Wikimedia >> volunteers or affiliates of a country are different entities and the >> Wikimedia communities cannot be held responsible for the action of their >> governments. Russian heritage photographers have nothing to do with the >> Ukraine war and they have equal rights to have their photographs compete >> and judged like the other participating countries. >> >> Also, WLM is not only a photography competiton, it's a way to digitally >> preserve heritage. Digital conversation has inverse relationship with >> destruction of war. >> >> Apart from Ukraine, there are conflicts, invasions and wars happening in >> the Middle East, Africa, Asia Pacific and other regions. There had been >> many in the past and surely there will be more in the future. WLM need not >> have to be involved in all these geopolitical complexities and take sides, >> rather if it can bridge gaps among people who are in conflicting countries >> by including them all, it can rather play that significant role instead of >> excluding and dividing them further. >> >> Regards, >> Bodhisattwa >> >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 18:33 Rodelar &lt;rodelarwiki(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> The Wiki Loves Monuments international team has been asked if >>> photographs from Russia should be allowed or excluded from participating in >>> this year's international contest. We have been in contact with the >>> organising teams of Wiki Loves Monuments from Ukraine and from Russia to >>> discuss this and to find a solution. >>> >>> We greatly appreciate that the team from Ukraine has organized the local >>> edition of the competition while there is war in their country! We >>> understand that there are reservations against seeing images from Ukraine >>> and Russia presented side by side in the galleries of nominated or winning >>> pictures. >>> >>> The volunteer team organising Wiki Loves Monuments Russia emphasizes to >>> have no ties to the Russian government or the Russian Wikimedia affiliate. >>> They are submitting the 10 finalist images to the international final round >>> of Wiki Loves Monuments 2022, but the occupied areas, including Crimea and >>> Sevastopol, have been excluded from the Wiki Loves monuments campaign. >>> Also, in Russia there is no freedom of panorama for works of art. This >>> excludes, in fact, any images of monuments and statues erected since World >>> War II, and which for example glorify the war, from being legally uploaded >>> to Wikimedia Commons. >>> >>> If images from Russia are excluded because of the war in Ukraine, this >>> could, without being based on a rule for the competition, set a precedent >>> for other territories where there is war around the world. Rules would have >>> to found, before deciding case by case, if a country should not be allowed >>> to send its nominations to Wiki Loves Monuments international. >>> >>> With these considerations in mind, the WLM organising team does not see >>> a reason to exclude the submission of Russian finalists images to the >>> international final round. >>> >>> On behalf of the WLM 2022 organising team, >>> >>> Rubén Ojeda >>> >>> International jury coordinator, Wiki Loves Monuments 2022 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>> wikilovesmonuments-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikilovesmonuments-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikilovesmonuments-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org