Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:10:47 +0200 From: jane023(a)gmail.com To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Europeana Loves Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 edition Àlex, That is great news! I would love to see more WWI monuments and memorials added (especially since I picnic-lunched at many of them while on a bike trip through Belgium and France several years ago). It was amazing to me to see how many small towns in Belgium and France still have yearly ceremonies for WWI memorials, even though no one is left to tell the stories anymore first hand. While munching my sandwich I could often read how many men died, and I couldn't figure out why there were so many names when all I could see around me was a small street with a few houses. It seemed as though that war really wiped out centuries of human habitation in some places, so there is no one left to take pictures and put them on Wikimedia Commons. Maybe this will help. I have often thought it was too bad I didn't take any pictures of the monuments, just the pretty countryside, so it will be fun to see what gets added in the contest. Jane 2013/7/23, Àlex Hinojo <alexhinojo(a)gmail.com>om>: _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Hi all, Indeed France and Belgium both have many of these monuments, but I believe that in France a lot of these wont be monument historique. Due to the fact that most of their monuments are really really old and special. (there are ca 60.000 monuments in France but there are also that number in both Flanders and the Netherlands, this means that to become a monument is easier in the latter two and therefore less special buildings are monuments). The same issue might hold for Wallonie. For other countries I don't know how the situation is, so this point is a little bit focused on only some of the countries. So there might be a lot of these monuments (in every small city) but a lot of them wont be eligible for the local contest, how to deal with that? Mvg, Bas 2013 edition their with within monuments/memorials WW1. category it for http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GLAM_images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monu… http://exhibitions.europeana.eu/exhibits/show/wiki-loves-art-nouveau _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:10:47 +0200 From: jane023(a)gmail.com To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Europeana Loves Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 edition Àlex, That is great news! I would love to see more WWI monuments and memorials added (especially since I picnic-lunched at many of them

while on a bike trip through Belgium and France several years ago). It was amazing to me to see how many small towns in Belgium and France still have yearly ceremonies for WWI memorials, even though no one is

left to tell the stories anymore first hand. While munching my sandwich I could often read how many men died, and I couldn't figure out why there were so many names when all I could see around me was a

small street with a few houses. It seemed as though that war really wiped out centuries of human habitation in some places, so there is no one left to take pictures and put them on Wikimedia Commons. Maybe

this will help. I have often thought it was too bad I didn't take any pictures of the monuments, just the pretty countryside, so it will be fun to see what gets added in the contest.

Jane

2013/7/23, Àlex Hinojo <alexhinojo(a)gmail.com>om>: > Hi all, > > as some of you may know, I'm now also collaborating with Europeana in their

> Wiki-related projects. I have a couple of good announcements to share with > you: > > 1) Again this year, Europeana will be an official partner of Wiki Loves > Monuments and will sponsor the main prize, as did last year.

> > 2) Beside of sponsoring main prize, We’ll have a special category within > the contest entitled ‘World War I Monuments and Memorials'. > > This category is understood in an inclusive way (all monuments/memorials

> related to WWI in participating countries) This category proposal is > related to another ongoing Europeana project, Europeana 1914-1918 [1] > designed for collecting memorabilia in digital form from related to WW1.

> Previous editions of the WLM contest also had an special Europeana category > (GLAM for 2012 [2] and Art Nouveau for 2011 [3]). The contest and jury > systems for this particular category will be the same one than used on

> previous years, following our KISS principles :) Still not sure about it > but probably will manage an online exhibit like the one Europeana did for > Art Nouveau in 2011 [3] >

> > We are still drafting all so will be glad to read your comments and > questions on this. > > Best, > > Àlex Hinojo > @kippelboy

>

> [1] www.europeana1914-1918.eu > [2] > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:GLAM_images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monu…

>

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So that would be similar to last year's situation, right? Last year the theme was GLAM, and only a tiny fraction of buildings in use by GLAM are listed as monuments - in some countries even less than in others. It does make it more important to communicate the definition very clearly though. We should make clear that monuments can only participate in this special category if they are *both* listed as a monument (with the local definition), as well as related to the first world war. Nicolas: I think you have a good point with regards to Freedom of Panorama! When talking about specially designed memorials in non-FoP countries, that would potentially indeed be a problem. Not sure if it would be a huge problem, but it is indeed unfortunate. Lodewijk 2013/7/23 Bas vb <bas_v_b(a)hotmail.com> Maarten Deneckere, Allmost every war monument in Flanders is indeed a listed monuments (at least in my small sample each municipality had around 5 of them). But in Wallonie the situation is very different, in the 12 municipalities I've checked only one of them had a war memorial listed. So that is the biggest problem imo Lodewijk. There is really a lot of these war memorials out there but only in some regions these are in fact listed monuments. Mvg, Bas From: lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:23:56 +0200 To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Europeana Loves Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 edition Hiya all, thanks for the feedback. Of course no topic is going to be perfectly distributed through countries, that goes equally for GLAM and art nouveau. However, please note that the definition is pretty wide here. Monuments (listed buildings, whatever) *related to* WW1. That could also include a building that had a special function during WW1 (War office?), or someone very relevant to WW1 lived there around that time. It can be honor fields, grave yards, memorials for the unknown soldier (if listed) etc. Obviously countries like Germany and France will have more heritage on this than the Netherlands or Thailand. While there are some drawbacks, are there also big problems that you see with this topic? Best, Lodewijk 2013/7/23 Maarten Deneckere <maartendeneckere(a)gmail.com> Hey all, I think it's a very good idea to give special attentation to monuments from the World Wars. In the two past editions of the competition in Belgium, three winners were related to the First World War: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2009-11-12_Ieper_MenenPoort.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Militaire_begraafplaats_Koksijde2.JPG http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Henri_Chapelle_Friedhof_2.jpg I did some checks in Belgium, and all monuments I know (even the smaller, local ones) are listed as a monument. Regards, Maarten 2013/7/23 Bas vb <basvb_wikipedia(a)live.nl> Hi all, Indeed France and Belgium both have many of these monuments, but I believe that in France a lot of these wont be monument historique. Due to the fact that most of their monuments are really really old and special. (there are ca 60.000 monuments in France but there are also that number in both Flanders and the Netherlands, this means that to become a monument is easier in the latter two and therefore less special buildings are monuments). The same issue might hold for Wallonie. For other countries I don't know how the situation is, so this point is a little bit focused on only some of the countries. So there might be a lot of these monuments (in every small city) but a lot of them wont be eligible for the local contest, how to deal with that? Mvg, Bas _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

On 23/07/13 18:14, Michael Maggs wrote: This was a very good point. IMHO there should be a template used to mark this (with an argument explaining the relationship). If we're lucky maybe we can get a checkbox in the upload wizard to say "This is a monument related to World Ward I (and thus also eligible to participate in the Europeana Prize)" (with a new field to fill the reason that appears when checked) _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

You can add a third field witch ads the template if it had a value (or a certain value) and skip it otherwise. Still a boolean value in the upload wizard would be really nice. /Lokal_Profil Den 8 aug 2013 23:41 skrev "Jane Darnell" <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:

On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote: We have a similar sub-contest request from one of our sponsors and would use this functionallity if available. David E. Narvaez _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Hi André, Op 15-8-2013 15:07, André Costa schreef: Imho this goes against our philosophy[1]: We stripped the upload form to contain as few options as possible, this would add more clutter. Previous years we just went through the images and added the special category. We found plenty of images. Maarten [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments/Philosophy

On 15/08/13 18:33, Maarten Dammers wrote: It's good to provide a streamlined process with as few options as possible, but don't try to give less than we should! - I think we should provide the users the option to participate into the Europeana award. They are the ones in the best position to assert that their photo is indeed somehow related to the topic, and their lack of participation in the subcontest shouldn't depend on a noticing that it could participate (we would still remove and add when ovbious, as usual). - The baseline participantes are using the UploadWizard. A new checkbox does add an option but is a one-line step. - Requesting an addition on wikitext would be unfriendly. - Another UI would add more complexity than what is added by that checkbox. Thus, IMHO we should go the UW checkbox path. ______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.org<WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonuments<http… http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**org <http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org>

It's good to provide a streamlined process with as few options as possible, but don't try to give less than we should! - I think we should provide the users the option to participate into the Europeana award. They are the ones in the best position to assert that their photo is indeed somehow related to the topic, and their lack of participation in the subcontest shouldn't depend on a noticing that it could participate (we would still remove and add when ovbious, as usual). - The baseline participantes are using the UploadWizard. A new checkbox does add an option but is a one-line step. - Requesting an addition on wikitext would be unfriendly. - Another UI would add more complexity than what is added by that checkbox. Thus, IMHO we should go the UW checkbox path.

I think Yuvipanda returns from vacation tomorrow, hopefully he will be able to review it then.

Hello! I did get back from Vacation today, and will look at the patches tomorrow! And as for when these things get deployed - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.22/Roadmap has the schedule :) Every Monday, the master of UploadWizard is deployed to Commons. Hope that helps! On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:01 AM, David Narvaez &lt;david.narvaez(a)computer.org&gt; wrote: -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog

Maybe I had the whole idea wrong, but isn't "is related to WWI" a property of the monument and not of the photo? I think that, if monument ID-000-10 is related to WWI, then all photos to ID-000-10 participate in the WWI contest, in which case the user doesn't need to tick any check box, etc. David E. Narvaez

2) Beside of sponsoring main prize, We’ll have a special category within the contest entitled ‘World War I Monuments and Memorials'.

Please can we not use the word 'monuments' at all in in relation to the special prize? In the UK, the expression 'war memorial' means something specific, and there will be virtually no UK entries of war memorials in that sense, since very few of them are listed buildings (which is what we are covering). In the UK, entries for the special award are likely to be buildings that had some special relevance to the war. What about 'The WW1 special award', with entries simply having to be of a structure having some special relevance to the Great War? Michael ______ On 16 Aug 2013, at 05:23, Lodewijk wrote: Hi Àlex, Op 23-7-2013 10:53, Àlex Hinojo schreef: We already have a hard time explaining native English speakers that the "Monuments" part in WLM is about old buildings and not about Monuments and Memorials, this will create a lot of confusion. What about "War and monuments" as a special theme? That can be reconstructed buildings, cementries, etc Maarten _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

I also like the naming :-) Sent from my Casiotone El 17/08/2013, a les 9:18, Jane Darnell &lt;jane023(a)gmail.com&gt; va escriure: good idea - the word monument is a tricky one! On Aug 16, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Michael Maggs wrote: Please can we *not* use the word 'monuments' at all in in relation to the special prize? In the UK, the expression 'war memorial' means something specific, and there will be virtually no UK entries of war memorials in that sense, since very few of them are listed buildings (which is what we are covering). In the UK, entries for the special award are likely to be buildings that had some special relevance to the war. What about *'**The WW1 special award', *with entries simply having to be of *a structure having some special relevance to the Great War*? Michael ______ On 16 Aug 2013, at 05:23, Lodewijk wrote: Hi Àlex, Op 23-7-2013 10:53, Àlex Hinojo schreef: 2) Beside of sponsoring main prize, We’ll have a special category within the contest entitled ‘World War I Monuments and Memorials'. We already have a hard time explaining native English speakers that the "Monuments" part in WLM is about old buildings and not about Monuments and Memorials, this will create a lot of confusion. What about "War and monuments" as a special theme? That can be reconstructed buildings, cementries, etc Maarten _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Please, could anyone tell me which template must add an user to indicate that that photo is participating in this category? We wanted to put it in our web site. Thank you Santi _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

@Yuvi: Can we add into the campaigns a checkbox for it?

There will be a special category - not a template. I believe people can add categories already in the upload form, so this option is there already. Categories are easier to add en masse (catalot etc) to images in (cross sections of) categories, so I think that would be more practical. I'm discussing with Alex what would be the best name for the category. We probably want it to be as short, but clear, as possible? Lodewijk

If we have a category, it should be relatively easy for a bot to automatically tag all members of that category with a template. So we could have the best of both worlds :-) A. On 27 August 2013 21:22, Platonides &lt;platonides(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org