Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising - WikiLovesMonuments

31 Aug 2015

Hello Megan & Andrea,

Thank you for the message and the hard work done!

Greetings,
Romaine

----
international organiser of Wiki Loves Monuments

2015-08-31 13:02 GMT+02:00 Megan Hernandez &lt;mhernandez(a)wikimedia.org&gt;rg>:

...
  Below is a message that Andrea Zanni, President of
Wikimedia Italia, and I
 have written together.

 Hi everyone,

 Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We would like to fill you
 in on the background work and conversations between Wikimedia Italia and
 WMF.

 There was a scheduling problem to solve between two very important
 campaigns for the movement. Wiki Loves Monuments is a major contribution
 campaign and annual effort.  Fundraising campaigns fund the movement and
 the team has a difficult goal this year with quarterly targets to meet.
 Direct communication was needed to work through the issue.

 WMIT and WMF have been talking through the situation and many possible
 solutions over the past few weeks. Through very honest and respectful phone
 and email conversations, we were able to reach a mutual understanding of
 the issue and decided to move the fundraising campaign after Wiki Loves
 Monuments. We reached this agreement over the weekend (actually several
 hours before the RfC was posted online), but an immediate reply was not
 sent because we wanted to coordinate an update to the list. Weekend
 coordination is tricky, which is why this email is being sent on Monday.

 Postponing the Italian fundraising campaign means for the first time in at
 least 4 years, the fundraising team will not be meeting a target. The team
 will pick up extra work in October to make up for work missed in September.
 It's not possible to do two months of work in one month, so there will need
 to be adjustments later throughout the year to make up for missing the
 September target.

 Wikimedia Italia and the WMF fundraising team have collaborated in the past
 on several projects (chapter banner and email campaigns as well as
 fundraising campaigns). We are currently working together on ways to get
 more contributors to WLM in Italy this year and on the upcoming fundraiser.
 We’ll work on communication and will share mutual expertise. We look
 forward to continuing to grow the relationship and working more closely
 going forward.

 It’s clear we need a better process to coordinate campaigns. We are a vast
 and complex movement, so communication is key. Together with the Community
 Engagement team, we are thinking of ways to improve and we appreciate your
 effort toward this improvement. Reasonable and respectful communication is
 how we were able to reach a solution, we need to build from this going
 forward.

 Thank you to everyone who provided constructive ideas to help solve the
 problem. Best of luck to all the WLM campaigns that launch tomorrow! Thank
 you for all your work on WLM, we’re all looking forward to seeing the new
 contributions this year.

 Megan Hernandez and Andrea Zanni

 On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood <
 peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net&gt; wrote:

  Interesting that this happens just after the RFC
is started. Maybe no
 relevance...
 Cheers,
 P

 -----Original Message-----
 From: wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
 wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Zanni
 Sent: Sunday, 30 August 2015 10:21 PM
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
 Cc: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions
 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in
 Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

 Hello everybody.
 I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to  run
  the Fundraising banner in Italy during
September.

 In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board  worked
  hard together to find a common solution. In these
very last days, we
 continued a very honest and direct conversation.
 I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.

 I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they
 will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it
 welcomed with the respect it deserves.

 Best regards

 Andrea

 On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki <
 steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com&gt; wrote:

  Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta
[1]!

 So we can see what the community thinks about this.

 [1]
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
 r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner

  Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200
 From: romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com
 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org;  wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org
  Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments]
Wiki Loves
 Monuments  in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

 Hi all,

 Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that
 it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this  situation. I
  have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves
Monuments
 organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments
 in September,  and
  the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a
fundraising banner in
 September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the  Wikimedia
  movement?

 To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this
 situation, I have set up this Request for Comment:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
 r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner

 Romaine

 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki &lt;romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com&gt;om>:

 > Hi all,
 >
 > New update:
 >
 > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it  resulted
  > in:
 > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we
 > will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.
 > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main
 > Page of Wikipedia
 > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
 > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
 > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social  media
  > fire
 >
 > They made clear this won't happen again.
 >
 > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen
 > again,  what
  > we certainly keep them having their promise
in future, and that
 > the  amount
  > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is
shown will be 50% of
 > the  time.
  >
 > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes.
 > Wiki  Loves
  > Monuments depends for about 99% on a
CentralNotice banner. Most  visitors to
  > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a
wiki. I do not believe a  small
  > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner
would help or is seen. I
 > do  not
  > believe that a link in the Thank You letter
for donors would work.
 > A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the
 > largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not
 > reach to the  core
  > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at.
And a social media fire,
 > I  have
  > no believe in it that WMF would have any
control in such and the
 > core infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
 >
 > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the
 > fundraising banner to a month later...
 >
 > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch:
 > afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of).
 >
 > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is
 > large ruined by it.
 >
 > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising
 > team  of
  > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider
it fair play. Too many  empty
  > promises, dividing the community to get less
resistance, no fair
 > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
 >
 > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by  multiple
  > people, I still have the impression some
people in WMF still do
 > not  really
  > get it.
 >
 > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from
 > WMF  who
  > are working for the foundation for some
years, and I had to
 > explain  what
  > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not
the first time.) It is
 > the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo
 > contest  in the
  > world, and some WMF people do not know or
understand. I was so  friendly to
  > explain it of course, but it gave mixed
feelings.
 >
 > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by  multiple
  > people, they do not really get it.
 >
 > Lessons to be learned:
 > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position
 > for  the
  > movement, they have a target to make.
 > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have
 > a  lot of
  > weight and use it.
 > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking
 > banner)  is a
  > balanced, reasonable and well thought one.
 > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
 > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not
 > impressed  by
 > > those.
 > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at
 > > the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your
 > > results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into  account
seriously.
 > > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and
 > > > even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and
 > > > feedback
 > on the
 > > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of
 > > > experience in
 > this
 > > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
 > > >
 > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking
 > > > banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
 > > >
 > > > Romaine
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <
 > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com
 > > > >:
 > > >
 > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
 > > >>
 > > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer
 > > >> first should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for
 > > >> exactly zero dollars per hour. It is all because of free
 > > >> knowledge and other
 > stuff, but
 > > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor
 > important
 > > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
 > > >>
 > > >> Regards,
 > > >> Steinsplitter
 > > >>
 > > >> > From: rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com
 > > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200
 > > >> > To: janbart(a)wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente(a)gmail.com;
 > > >> me.lyzzy(a)gmail.com; ubifrieda(a)gmail.com; jmh649(a)gmail.com;
 > > >> darekj(a)alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic(a)kit.edu; jwales(a)wikia.com;
 > > >> stu(a)wikimedia.org
 > > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org;
 > > >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
 > > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
 > Monuments
 > > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
 > > >> >
 > > >> > dear board,
 > > >> >
 > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons
 > > >> > to
 > spoil
 > > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF
 > cannot
 > > >> and
 > > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there
 > > >> > is a
 > > >> simple
 > > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined
 > > >> > banner
 > for
 > > >> WLM
 > > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is
 > covered by
 > > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ...
the
 > > >> > only
 > > >> ones i
 > > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space 
policy.
   if we
  >> as
 >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than
 >> > it is
 >> better
 >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the
 >> > rights  to the
  >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the
other one employing all the  people
  >> > doing some work.
 >> >
 >> > best,
 >> > rupert
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni < 
zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com
  >> >
 >> > wrote:
 >> >
 >> > > Hello everyone.
 >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the
 >> > > situation for Wikimedia Italia.
 >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some 
important
  >> > > points.
 >> > >
 >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been
 >> > > contacted  by
  >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and
later by Jessica Robell, who
 >> > > explained  that
  >> the
 >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising
 >> > > campaign  in
  >> Italy
 >> > > in September.
 >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is
 >> well-known to
 >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years.
 >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014:  we
 >> > > discussed  for
  >> several
 >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR
 >> > > banners  went
  >> live
 >> > > just for the last days.
 >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all 
September.
  >> > > This year the clash is on the
whole month of September. Given
 >> > > the
 >> history,
 >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and 
written
  >> so in
 >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been
 >> > > negligible in
 >> matters
 >> > > of
 >> > > communication.
 >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of
 >> > > the clash, the fact that all this appeared  in
  >> the
 >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few
 >> > > weeks
 >> before
 >> > > the beginning of WLM.
 >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in 
constructive
  >> > > conversation and negotiation.
 >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM:
 >> > > it's  just
  >> better
 >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just
 >> > > a few
 >> days in
 >> > > the middle of September.
 >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite:
 >> > > this  does
  >> not
 >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening.
 >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate
 >> > > expected
 >> results
 >> > > for WLM in 2015.
 >> > >
 >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a
 >> > > clear
 >> negative
 >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of
 >> > > Wikimedia
 >> Italia.
 >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants
 >> > > and
 >> uploaded
 >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in
 >> > > front  of our
  >> > > sponsors and partners,
including 200+ municipalities, 100+  cultural
  >> > > institutions, and some major
partners, like FIAF (the
 >> > > Federation  of
  >> Italian
 >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council
 >> > > of
 >> Museums),
 >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring
 >> > > Club
 >> Italiano
 >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT 
spends
  >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each
year - not because we waste
 >> > > money,  but
  >> > > because we have higher
stakes.
 >> > >
 >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international
 >> > > renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed)
 >> > > Steve McCurry (
 >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco
 >> > > Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana).
 >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians
 >> > > from  the
  >> > > Italian Parliament for an
official meeting regarding the law
 >> > > we  are
  >> > > fighting
 >> > > as WMIT.
 >> > >
 >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes 
beyond
 > >> being
 > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to
 > >> > > create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking
 > >> > > pictures of
 > >> monuments.
 > >> > >
 > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama".
 > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind
 > >> > > of
 > >> monuments,
 > >> > > even if copyright has expired.
 > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments.
 For.
   >>
Every.
 >> > > Monument.
 >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed.
 >> > > There is  no
  >> > > official list of monuments in
Italy.
 >> > >
 >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here:
 >> > >
 >> > >
 >> 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikim
 edia_projects
  >> > >
 >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM
 >> > > Italy  stats:
  >> > >
http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it
 >> > > is  the
  >> reason
 >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics 
each. In
  >> 2014
 >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms
 >> > > of  number
  >> of
 >> > > photos.
 >> > >
 >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement.
 >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the
 >> > > Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of
 >> > > course, also  Wiki
 > >> Loves
 > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from
 > >> > > other
 > >> sources).
 > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia 
movement:
   >>
but, for
 >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of
 >> > > the  very
  >> > > activities it is meant to
support.
 >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon
 >> > > in a
 >> small
 >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international
 >> competition
 >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands
 >> > > of
 >> pictures
 >> > > to the Wikimedia projects.
 >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially 
when it
  >> is
 >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors
 >> > > money to
 >> build
 >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect
 >> > > for  all
  >> the
 >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their 
career
  >> to the
 >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could
 >> > > also  have a
  >> > > negative impact on the next
fundraising campaigns.
 >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF 
fundraising
  >> team
 >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to
 >> > > be
 >> confident
 >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and
 that in
  >> the
 >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and
 >> > > work  more
  >> > > collaboratively.
 >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation
 >> > > with  WMF
  >> and all
 >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar
 >> > > of  all
  >> the
 >> > > Wikimedia movement.
 >> > >
 >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and
 >> > > gave us
 >> opinions
 >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere.
 >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and
 >> > > we  would
  >> like
 >> > > to see it become wider and bigger.
 >> > >
 >> > > Andrea Zanni
 >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia
 >> > > _______________________________________________
 >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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 Megan Hernandez

 Director of Online Fundraising
 Wikimedia Foundation
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