Hi Mykola,
I would encourage WLX Jury Tool to follow suit and provide a similar
option to give easy openness to its users. There is no obligation to use
either or any tool. This overview is just a convenient way to make it
easier for organizers to be transparent.
Lodewijk
On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 9:49 AM Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k(a)ukr.net> wrote:
Hi Lodewijk,
As we intend to use WLX Jury Tool and not Montage in Ukraine, what is
expected from us?
We always publish the list of our jury members here:
http://wlm.org.ua/juri/ , you can see all our jury members between 2012
and 2019. The 2020 list is still being finalised as we are still waiting
for final confirmations, but we will also publish it as we did in previous
years.
On the other side, as we have 47.5K images in Ukraine, we will have to
organise multiple rounds, including checking the images before submitting
them to the jury (as no jury is able to review that many images) and
possibly a final call between jury members to distribute places among the
top photos. We are happy to explain our selection process but we may not
have the same details as for the teams using Montage.
Best regards
Mykola (NickK)
WLM Ukraine team
--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "effe iets anders" <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
Дата: 1 жовтня 2020, 00:49:56
Hi all,
After getting feedback both on- and offlist, we arrived at the following:
the Montage developers will make a page available to each jury coordinator,
that they can copy and paste to a wiki page to share their process settings
easily. That way it's easy to be transparent. At some point in the future,
we will likely make this public by default.
I do express the expectation that each national coordinator will publish
their jury members (either real life name or username). It may well be that
we ask you to submit this list of jurors when you submit your nominees
(although we will not publish it on your behalf, that is your
responsibility).
Warmly,
Lodewijk
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:01 PM effe iets anders <
effeietsanders(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All great suggestions.
In the past the WLM international team has also maintained a database of
jurors to be backup. We had very little requests in recent years though,
probably because so many people know organizers form other countries. If
you're stuck, I would suggest to either ask someone you already know, or to
ask this list. Most likely you have a response within 48h. But don't wait
until the last minute, if you can avoid it. Jurors typically like a week to
get things done (if the country isn't huge).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 3:48 AM Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Thank you Yaroslav, I will send you a separate email now!
Having the WLE team setting up a pool of jurors like that was so helpful
Anton. Yes, I could find the names and email other WLM organisers, but this
system took that extra work away from me - which was hugely appreciated,
especially in our first year!
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 11:45, Anton Protsiuk <
anton.protsiuk(a)wikimedia.org.ua> wrote:
The international WLE team this year has tried to create a database of
jurors from different countries for local contests. We had a Google form
for these purposes (
https://forms.gle/Pj61adjgYiE6Jn687) & asked local
teams whether they needed help with jury.
We haven't estimated the results yet, since the local selection process
is still ongoing, but it seems to have worked well.
Best Regards
Anton Protsiuk
Project Manager at Wikimedia Ukraine
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:05 AM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
If WLM Ireland is in September I can help as a juror. If it is in October
this could be more difficult because I am also in the jury for Russia, and
there is typically a lot of work there.
Generally, asking around (may be also on Commons) typically helps. In the
past I have been on jury for a few different countries. Somebody would just
approach me and ask.If I can make it, I agree.
Yaroslav
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mārtiņš Bruņenieks <martinsb(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi, Rebecca!
I have organized multiple WLM/WLE editions in Latvia. We have used
Montage in most of them.
After experiencing problems with jurors dropping out or being known at
the last moment, we created new Wikimedia accounts just for the jury and
sent the passwords to them.
Montage allows some editing of jurors after the round has started but
results can be unexpected.
Mārtiņš
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 2:13 AM Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Lodewijk,
As a slight aside to this, and perhaps something that might help ease
some of the worries around judging processes in other countries, would it
be an idea to have a pool of international WLM Wikimedia jurors that could
help judge other countries? Here in Ireland we have done this with Malta,
exchanging jurors over the past few years, and for our first WLE this year
we had Axel from Sweden be on our jury. You get the benefit of a fellow
Wikimedian who understands the whole process, and who could bring some
different expertise or perspective to a country's WLM. Having someone who
is completely unfamiliar with your local built heritage means they can
assess the images with a different take than someone who knows them very
well.
After 6 years, we have found it harder to recruit a jury from our pool of
active Wikimedians and relevant expert judges from the arts and
architecture sectors in Ireland. I know I would really appreciate it if we
could "borrow" a juror from another Wikimedia group (in the past we have
had some UK help with this too with jurors). We have suffered from jurors
dropping out of the process at the last minute or after judging has begun
(which results in having to restart rounds in Montage), generally it has
been those who are not Wikimedians who perhaps did not fully understand the
commitment when they agreed. Not only is it frustrating, it's very
stressful. It may be less of an issue this year, given that the deadline
for submitting to the international jury won't be at the end of October.
Hope that helps clarify some of the issues some of the smaller countries
can face over the years of WLM!
Thanks,
Rebecca
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 23:57, effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Alexander,
As for the status of Montage requests: I suggest that you start a
separate thread on that, and would like to leave this to the maintainers to
respond to.
As for publishing the settings: I was imagining some kind of log-style
publication, not a near write-up. This won't be pretty, but it will allow
people to figure out how it worked out in practice. If we follow a logical
naming convention, people should be able to puzzle it together. Ideally,
the national organizers also publish their process on the website, but this
log would be a way to verify that. But I accept your note that we may need
to add a context explaining that more process may happen before/after this
tool is used.
Lodewijk
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 3:17 PM Alexander Tsirlin <altsirlin(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Lodewijk,
We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury
tool, and the number of photos in each round that the national competitions
have used. We're debating whether there should be an opt-out for this year.
This is unrealistic, because jury process may involve several campaigns
that are later merged together (in Russia, we do it all the time in order
to meet your submission deadline). Moreover, some of the photos can be
accepted for the next round within Montage but excluded later on if we find
that they do not depict cultural heritage. The end result is that any
number you take from Montage will not match the number of photos that we
publish (e.g., as a short-list). This will only lead to confusion and won't
be of any use for anyone.
Since you mentioned Montage, let me also ask when two important pull
requests, which were done by one of our team members, are going to be
merged into the code:
https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/169
https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/175
These are really, really important fixes. Without them I would have a
problem creating new Montage campaigns in October.
Sincerely,
Alexander
On 9/2/2020 11:49 PM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi all,
over the past years, we have had various requests to encourage national
organizers to be transparent in their judging processes and who sits on
their jury. Most of the national organizers are currently transparent about
this already. In the past weeks/month, more conversation around this has
continued with some concerns (valid or not) on certain jury processes.
In this light, the international team intends to institute a new
expectation for national organizers, namely to publish the members of their
jury (be it their username or real life name) at some point. We have not
figured out the practical details yet, but I can imagine that while we
encourage publication on the website, we would ask national organizers to
add a list of jury members to their submission to the international jury -
which we then will publish as well.
We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury
tool, and the number of photos in each round that the national competitions
have used. We're debating whether there should be an opt-out for this year.
We will of course apply at least the same level of transparency to the
international jury.
Before we make this decision, I would like to ask for feedback on this,
and whether there are edge cases we should consider where such transparency
would be harmful. I'll take 1 week to gather some feedback on this, and
then we'll make a final decision. You can respond to this on this mailing
list, or privately to me.
Warmly,
Lodewijk
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