Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons

Hi Nevile, Thank you. I'm glad you will step into the breach. I will take a look in another 2 days. Best, Isaac. On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Neville Borg &lt;neville.borg(a)wikimalta.org > Hi Isaac, > > Thanks for pointing this out. I'm the WLM organiser for Malta, so I will > try to clarify this with User:James John Borg. I don't know this user > personally (despite our shared last name!), but I will try to find a way to > contact them. For what it's worth, both James John Borg and Joshua Schembri > are fairly common names in Malta, so I would assume that they are two > different people, but that wouldn't automatically exclude the possibility > of James John Borg having taken the photos. > > Best, > Neville > > On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:26 olatunde olalekan isaac < > reachout2isaac(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I stumbled across another participant, User:James John Borg >> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg>. >> Looking at the metadata of their uploads >> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/James_John_Borg>, >> it shows that the copyright holder of the files is "* Joshua Schembri*". >> I think the user is a participant from Malta. Do we have WLM organizer from >> Malta willing to take this up? >> >> Best, >> >> Isaac. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Alexander Tsirlin &lt;altsirlin(a)gmail.com >>>> >>> Dear Lodewijk, >>> >>> I find it a bit difficult to assume good faith when someone approaches >>> me with a knife. I find it more natural to defend, and that's what we have >>> to do now. >>> >>> I truly regret that Commons did not develop a more civil approach than >>> submitting deletion requests on every possible occasion. Even if we assume >>> that this is the reasonable course of action, it hardly makes sense for >>> WLM, because only uploaders receive notifications about possible file >>> deletion. The organizers have no idea about it, although they should be >>> contacted in the first turn. Most of the uploaders are new users who do not >>> speak English. What do you expect to hear from them? >>> >>> All photos related to WLM Russia contain a template saying: >>> >>> Please read the guidelines >>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Monuments_database_in_Russia> >>> before making any changes that can affect the monuments database! >>> >>> If you actually read the guidelines, you will see the following: >>> >>> If you see a potential candidate for deletion, *inform us in the >>> first place*. We will organize the file transfer and you will be able >>> to delete the photo afterwards. Should you do it differently and nominate a >>> WLM/WLE photo for deletion without informing us, this will be highly >>> detrimental and disrespectful to our work. We don't like vandals. >>> >>> All these deletion requests are indeed highly disrespectful to our >>> work. But they happen, and we have no other choice but to fight against >>> that. And whet our knives, because we will likely need them. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Alexander >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17.09.2016 12:17, Lodewijk wrote: >>> >>> Hey Alexander, >>> >>> Assuming good faith is always good - even if you have to work harder >>> for it. It makes the interactions more pleasant and the work more fun. So I >>> will always recommend to keep doing it - even if it goes against your >>> natural response. >>> >>> The case where the names don't seem to match seems like a valid case >>> to me to ask questions, and this process is (unfortunately) the process >>> being used for that at Wikimedia Commons. It is uncomfortable, but it is >>> what we have to deal with. Because there are so many pictures, there is a >>> bunch to be expected. >>> >>> I'm not going to pretend that the Wikimedia Commons community is >>> always easy or fun to work with - but their intentions are usually good. >>> They are very tough on copyright, and very suspicious. While these are some >>> disadvantages, it does allow us to use a lot of shared infrastructure, and >>> makes competitions like this one possible on an international scale. Please >>> do realise that the number of uploads typically raises with 30-100% during >>> Wiki Loves Monuments, and this puts some stress/strain on the reviewers >>> too. >>> >>> Best, >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> 2016-09-17 8:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Tsirlin &lt;altsirlin(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: >>> >>>> Rather than complaining to the process could you please for once >>>> think that this is your project too and everyone in this together? >>>> >>>> It is not my project. Like many other people, I am forced to use it >>>> as a common image repository, even though I emphatically do not want to. As >>>> you probably know, before migrating to WMF servers Wikivoyage had its own >>>> image repository, and we wanted to keep it, because it was much better >>>> organized than Commons, and we did not want other people to impose their >>>> rules and practices of "nominating everything for deletion" on images that >>>> we have carefully collected ourselves. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, our request was ignored by the WMF, so yes, we are >>>> also in this strange thing that was supposed to be a common project, but is >>>> in fact run by a handful of people who believe that unjustified and >>>> well-hidden deletion requests are the best way to solve all problems. But >>>> it stinks, and we try to be as far from it as possible. >>>> >>>> Your experience of license review for WLM Bangladesh might be >>>> interesting if we would ever have time to do this. At the moment, I spend >>>> most of my free time on finding and fighting these well-hidden deletion >>>> requests. Thank you, my dear Commons community, for creating such a >>>> wonderful working environment. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17.09.2016 11:32, Nahid Sultan wrote: >>>> >>>> Though it seems a bit odd but on a commons perspective it is also a >>>> normal procedure. Commons has a huge issue with people finding images >>>> online and then uploading them as their own work, so regular contributors >>>> on commons can sometimes be overzealous in making sure that people actually >>>> have the right to release what they are releasing. That is where the OTRS >>>> system comes in. Rather than complaining to the process could >>>> you please for once think that this is your project too and everyone in >>>> this together? >>>> >>>> >>>> We, from WLM Bangladesh team have created a work-board/list for such >>>> users who have problem with metadata, previously published same image on >>>> other media to make sure that they are actually own the copyright. we even >>>> created a hand book for reviewers explaining what to look during the review >>>> (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM). So, every >>>> reviewer check for those mistakes when reviewing an image then if they >>>> found such problematic user they immediately contact them via email or talk >>>> page and list them on https://commons.wikimedia. >>>> org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/possible_copyright_problem. It works >>>> for us. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Nahid Sultan >>>> >>>> User:NahidSultan <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> >>>> on all Wikimedia Foundation >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation>'s public wikis >>>> >>>> Secretary, Wikimedia Bangladesh >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh> >>>> >>>> Twitter: @nahidunlimited <https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited> >>>> >>>> http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* WikiLovesMonuments <wikilovesmonuments-bounces@ >>>> lists.wikimedia.org> &lt;wikilovesmonuments-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; >>>> on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin &lt;altsirlin(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>> &lt;altsirlin(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 11:09 AM >>>> *To:* Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on >>>> Commons >>>> >>>> Now it is not only about Freedom of Panorama and non-free images. >>>> >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_ >>>> requests/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb >>>> Here, one Commons user nominates a bunch of excellent photos for >>>> deletion after he sees that the user name does not match the name in >>>> EXIF, even though the connection between the two is pretty obvious. >>>> This >>>> deletion request has been closed yesterday, but it still costed me a >>>> lot >>>> of time and a long e-mail exchange with the uploader, where I tried >>>> to >>>> convince her that everything is fine, and this deletion request was >>>> only >>>> a mistake. Yes, just a small mistake, really... >>>> >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_ >>>> requests/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn >>>> Here, the same user nominates for deletion some photos of a 13th >>>> century >>>> cathedral claiming that there is no freedom of panorama. What???! >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> That's a very systematic course of action against us taking place on >>>> Commons. It would be silly to assume good faith here. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing listWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonumentshttp://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments >>>> mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing listWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonumentshttp://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org