Hi WSC,

First of all: I of course know barely a thing about how this imperialistic contest (for the lack of a better word) would land or how sensitive it would be. What I do understand from my contacts (but those are most likely much less extensive than yours) is that it would most likely be unpopular with our (government) partners in those countries, and indeed not so much with the potential participants. That has significant downsides (we need those partners for the local contest) so it would basically come down to a choice of focus whether we prefer to have national contests or rather an imperialistic one. But in the end I'd like to leave this call to the local teams in question (particularly the India, Bangladesh, Canada and USA (and South Africa?) teams). 

When it comes to the list: although it sounds easier to organize, asking people to make up their own definition brings in a whole lot of problems of its own. I would like to refer to this essay about the reasons why WLM is successful. Reasons include that it is simple (people know what to look for: clear definition) and that their photos will be used on Wikipedia (for that we need the lists as well; and more important, whatever is on that list needs to be there because of a neutral and verifiable definition: usually a government definition). It is perfectly possible to organize a contest with a wider scope, and with a more vague definition, but we would be talking about a different style of contest with different communication requirements. Wiki Loves Monuments is federative in structure (country based) and works from this neutral standard, even though there is a large degree of flexibility how to achieve this standard. 

This list structure is embedded in the contest concept to a large (although not infinite) degree. It helps us use the tools we use because through these predefined definitions and lists people can identify which of the buildings is on the list through a simple identifier. This makes the upload form more simple, and helps us to re-use the images in articles. It also helps us categorizing on Commons and adding geotags and other metadata when that information is available or becomes available at a later stage. It also reduces the chance that people will photograph un-monumental buildings (their own house) and makes it that way easier to do the judging. 

Finally I can't mention it often enough that I prefer to have national contests (including the very UK itself!) with all the impact connected to it than an effort to have an extra supracontest - if one would have to choose. But I guess you are yourself the best judge to see if this would be detrimental in any way at all to the WLM-uk.

Best regards,

Lodewijk

2012/5/17 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com>
Hi Lodewijk,

I can see that there is a risk that a UK funded prize for images of monuments left over from the era of British rule could potentially be controversial. But we are a global movement and we can include people from India and elsewhere in the design and judging - I discussed this at the UK AGM with a British Gujurati and he thought it could be an interesting project. But I'll bcc bounce this by some of our colleagues in India and see what they think.

As for needing a database or a list, I'm not sure that is so essential. I'd like to see what happens when we ask people to photograph what they consider to be the monuments of their area. There should be less difficulty launching the scheme, and who knows we may get some overlooked gems.

WSC.


On 11 May 2012 10:35, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
Hi WSC,

Hi think there definitely will be some 'sensitivities' and I'd be personally very careful with awarding such prize unless all countries involved have an active community that actively support such prize (and of course only for those countries that participate anyway). However, no matter how you do it - somehow you will have to define what is a monument under whatever definition. Making up our own definition is very tricky and not something I'd suggest unless as a last resort. 

Lets try to focus on the model that we know that works as much as possible and scaling the regular contest to countries - note that even for the UK at this point it is unclear whether it can participate (as I understand the current status) simply because there are no volunteers who are willing to pull the contest off. I much rather see UK, India, USA and Bangladesh participate as individual countries than that we have some extra category about an Empire (with all its sensitivities and PR risks) and not have those countries participate 'for real'. 

Best,
Lodewijk


2012/5/11 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com>
I'm assuming it refers to stuff built in those countries whilst they were part of the Portuguese empire. Much of that will be well out of copyright as the Portuguese Empire peaked centuries ago.

I think it would be sensible to do something similar for the British Empire, but with the slight issue that as the Empire covered a quarter of the globe less than seventy years ago there will be some stuff that is still in copyright.

I'll ask the UK chapter by cc if they'd be willing to fund a prize for "monumental legacy of the British Empire" - obviously there may be some sensitivities on this so any suggestions as to how not to do this would be appreciated. But potentially this could give a participation route for people in large parts of the world that might not otherwise be covered by WLM.

I'm thinking along the lines of:

No target database.

Anyone may enter.

Any image loaded to Commons in Sept 2012 would qualify, provided it is of a building or monument built during the era of British rule in a former part of the British Empire.

Entry would be done by adding a hidden category to the article [[:category:WLM 2012 - monumental legacy of the British Empire]]

I guess the UK itself should be excluded.

WSC


On 11 May 2012 09:39, Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian@gmail.com> wrote:
2012/5/10 Nicolas VIGNERON <vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com>:
> 2012/5/10 Vicenç Riullop <vriullop@hotmail.com>:
>> These is very interesting, Nuno. I am curious about Portuguese monuments in
>> Espanha and Itália :-) Is the registrant official? Say, a reliable source?
>> You could create an international list of Portuguese monuments abroad (maybe
>> Brazil is a special case). Then it could be shared in other languages,
>> regardless if there is any special prize or not.
>>
>> Vicenç
>
> There is more or less the same thing for France.
>
> Some territories where once inside the French colonial empire but are
> not anymore. In the meantime (roughly beetween 1840 and 1940), some
> monuments were officialy protected. Obviously, they're no more
> official nowadays (except if the local gouvernement decide to
> re-protect them by itself).
>
> Eg. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_monuments_historiques_des_d%C3%A9partements_fran%C3%A7ais_d%27Alg%C3%A9rie

I'm not getting what this "Portuguese Empire monuments" means...
It means that these monuments are under the control of the Portuguese
embassy? Are we free to photograph them?
In Italy, for Italian monuments (sic), one should ask a permission to
take a photo of a monument and release to the public (for instance
with a CC-BY-SA). This permission can be granted by local
Sovrintendenze (the government). Is the situation for the 4 monuments
indicated above in some way different?

Cristian


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