Thanks for this! I never thought of  turning it around, which you did with "non-freedom of panorama is based on copyright". That may sound pretty confusing, but I actually get that!
So anything older than the "70-year-rule" is always free of copyright, except in certain situations in Italy?

This is all very enlightening,

2011/4/27 Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org>
Hi Jane,

I am not sure what you are referring to in your third paragraph, but let me at least try to clarify the point you make in your first. Maartens first point (buildings by architects died longer than 70 years ago) relates to the general principle in copyright that a number of years after the death of the author, the copyright ceases to exist. Since the non-freedom of panorama is based on copyright, this is also valid there. So there is, as far as I am aware, no reference to an "odd" exception there. It is just as well valid for writers, painters and photographers. 

Kind regards,


2011/4/27 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>
Maarten and Bastien,
I certainly agree that it is confusing. Maarten's first point is an odd exception to the Freedom of Panorama rule that I never heard of before I read those Estonian Commons template tags. The usual Wiki Commons "FOP" copyright is wide open as long as you are outside, anywhere in Europe.  I certainly hope that this is just a problem with the current templates on Commons for Estonia. I wonder how Estonian travel agencies handle this issue? 

My understanding until now has been that for some countries there may be special restrictions, like in Italy for some monuments and in France in specific bizarre cases like the French Louvre museum, the Eiffel tower when illuminated at night (but only after 1989, when the current lights were installed, and only when the light display is visible, so not if there are fireworks going off all around it) and in other countries there may be restrictions because of privacy issues, but in general, everything is allowed. This is especially the case for public art and cultural heritage sites, which are often also tourist attractions.

The problem I was referring to in my earlier mail was the problem with the Estonian template tags for Commons, because they don't use the Wiki Loves Monuments preferred template -- the CC-by-SA tag for "Creative Commons-Attibuted-Share Alike". If this issue is just a misunderstanding, then the proper templates should be used. If not, then perhaps for the competition certain monuments in Estonia or certain cities could allow CC-by-SA to be used for the period of the competition, using the argument that "It would be a great benefit to the general public at large to have high quality photo's of these important cultural objects that are free to use by anybody, anywhere".


2011/4/27 Bastien <bzg@altern.org>
Hi Maarten,

Maarten Dammers <maarten@mdammers.nl> writes:

> 1. Is the buildings architect death for more than 70 years? Yes. Free

I don't want to nitpick, but there are some tricky situations.

In the case of the Eiffel Tower: Eiffel died in 1923, more than 70 years
ago, so pictures from a "bare" Eiffel Tower *in daylight* can be free.
But pictures from the Eiffel Tower when it's illuminated by night cannot
be free... thanks to the copyright an artist owns on this "artwork".

So one must also consider the case when a building is the support for an
artwork from an artist that is *not* dead more than 70 years ago...



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