Hi Lodewijk,
As we intend to use WLX Jury Tool and not Montage in Ukraine, what is expected from us?
We always publish the list of our jury members here:
http://wlm.org.ua/juri/ , you can see
all our jury members between 2012 and 2019. The 2020 list is still being finalised as we
are still waiting for final confirmations, but we will also publish it as we did in
previous years.
On the other side, as we have 47.5K images in Ukraine, we will have to organise multiple
rounds, including checking the images before submitting them to the jury (as no jury is
able to review that many images) and possibly a final call between jury members to
distribute places among the top photos. We are happy to explain our selection process but
we may not have the same details as for the teams using Montage.
Best regards
Mykola (NickK)
WLM Ukraine team
--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "effe iets anders" <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
Дата: 1 жовтня 2020, 00:49:56
Hi all,
After getting feedback both on- and offlist, we arrived at the following: the Montage
developers will make a page available to each jury coordinator, that they can copy and
paste to a wiki page to share their process settings easily. That way it's easy to be
transparent. At some point in the future, we will likely make this public by default.
I do express the expectation that each national coordinator will publish their jury
members (either real life name or username). It may well be that we ask you to submit this
list of jurors when you submit your nominees (although we will not publish it on your
behalf, that is your responsibility).
Warmly,
Lodewijk
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:01 PM effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All great suggestions.
In the past the WLM international team has also maintained a database of jurors to be
backup. We had very little requests in recent years though, probably because so many
people know organizers form other countries. If you're stuck, I would suggest to
either ask someone you already know, or to ask this list. Most likely you have a response
within 48h. But don't wait until the last minute, if you can avoid it. Jurors
typically like a week to get things done (if the country isn't huge).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 3:48 AM Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Yaroslav, I will send you a separate email now!
Having the WLE team setting up a pool of jurors like that was so helpful Anton. Yes, I
could find the names and email other WLM organisers, but this system took that extra work
away from me - which was hugely appreciated, especially in our first year!
On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 11:45, Anton Protsiuk <anton.protsiuk(a)wikimedia.org.ua>
wrote:
The international WLE team this year has tried to create a database of jurors from
different countries for local contests. We had a Google form for these purposes
(
https://forms.gle/Pj61adjgYiE6Jn687) & asked local teams whether they needed help
with jury.We haven't estimated the results yet, since the local selection process is
still ongoing, but it seems to have worked well.
Best RegardsAnton Protsiuk
Project Manager at Wikimedia Ukraine
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:05 AM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If WLM Ireland is in September I can help as a juror. If it is in October this could be
more difficult because I am also in the jury for Russia, and there is typically a lot of
work there.
Generally, asking around (may be also on Commons) typically helps. In the past I have been
on jury for a few different countries. Somebody would just approach me and ask.If I can
make it, I agree.
Yaroslav
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 9:50 AM Mārtiņš Bruņenieks <martinsb(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Rebecca!
I have organized multiple WLM/WLE editions in Latvia. We have used Montage in most of
them.
After experiencing problems with jurors dropping out or being known at the last moment, we
created new Wikimedia accounts just for the jury and sent the passwords to them.
Montage allows some editing of jurors after the round has started but results can be
unexpected.
Mārtiņš
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 2:13 AM Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Lodewijk,
As a slight aside to this, and perhaps something that might help ease some of the worries
around judging processes in other countries, would it be an idea to have a pool of
international WLM Wikimedia jurors that could help judge other countries? Here in Ireland
we have done this with Malta, exchanging jurors over the past few years, and for our first
WLE this year we had Axel from Sweden be on our jury. You get the benefit of a fellow
Wikimedian who understands the whole process, and who could bring some different expertise
or perspective to a country's WLM. Having someone who is completely unfamiliar with
your local built heritage means they can assess the images with a different take than
someone who knows them very well.
After 6 years, we have found it harder to recruit a jury from our pool of active
Wikimedians and relevant expert judges from the arts and architecture sectors in Ireland.
I know I would really appreciate it if we could "borrow" a juror from another
Wikimedia group (in the past we have had some UK help with this too with jurors). We have
suffered from jurors dropping out of the process at the last minute or after judging has
begun (which results in having to restart rounds in Montage), generally it has been those
who are not Wikimedians who perhaps did not fully understand the commitment when they
agreed. Not only is it frustrating, it's very stressful. It may be less of an issue
this year, given that the deadline for submitting to the international jury won't be
at the end of October.
Hope that helps clarify some of the issues some of the smaller countries can face over the
years of WLM!
Thanks,
Rebecca
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 23:57, effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Alexander,
As for the status of Montage requests: I suggest that you start a separate thread on that,
and would like to leave this to the maintainers to respond to.
As for publishing the settings: I was imagining some kind of log-style publication, not a
near write-up. This won't be pretty, but it will allow people to figure out how it
worked out in practice. If we follow a logical naming convention, people should be able to
puzzle it together. Ideally, the national organizers also publish their process on the
website, but this log would be a way to verify that. But I accept your note that we may
need to add a context explaining that more process may happen before/after this tool is
used.
Lodewijk
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 3:17 PM Alexander Tsirlin <altsirlin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Lodewijk,
We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury tool, and the number
of photos in each round that the national competitions have used. We're debating
whether there should be an opt-out for this year. This is unrealistic, because jury
process may involve several campaigns that are later merged together (in Russia, we do it
all the time in order to meet your submission deadline). Moreover, some of the photos can
be accepted for the next round within Montage but excluded later on if we find that they
do not depict cultural heritage. The end result is that any number you take from Montage
will not match the number of photos that we publish (e.g., as a short-list). This will
only lead to confusion and won't be of any use for anyone.
Since you mentioned Montage, let me also ask when two important pull requests, which were
done by one of our team members, are going to be merged into the code:
https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/169
https://github.com/hatnote/montage/pull/175
These are really, really important fixes. Without them I would have a problem creating new
Montage campaigns in October.
Sincerely,
Alexander
On 9/2/2020 11:49 PM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi all,
over the past years, we have had various requests to encourage national organizers to be
transparent in their judging processes and who sits on their jury. Most of the national
organizers are currently transparent about this already. In the past weeks/month, more
conversation around this has continued with some concerns (valid or not) on certain jury
processes.
In this light, the international team intends to institute a new expectation for national
organizers, namely to publish the members of their jury (be it their username or real life
name) at some point. We have not figured out the practical details yet, but I can imagine
that while we encourage publication on the website, we would ask national organizers to
add a list of jury members to their submission to the international jury - which we then
will publish as well.
We also intend to publish by default the settings of the montage jury tool, and the number
of photos in each round that the national competitions have used. We're debating
whether there should be an opt-out for this year.
We will of course apply at least the same level of transparency to the international
jury.
Before we make this decision, I would like to ask for feedback on this, and whether there
are edge cases we should consider where such transparency would be harmful. I'll take
1 week to gather some feedback on this, and then we'll make a final decision. You can
respond to this on this mailing list, or privately to me.
Warmly,
Lodewijk
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Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland
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