Replying to several points:

Yes, better tools, I'm all for that :-)

Jane, the "has part" list you made just duplicates effort that is already done. It's about as messy as Wikipedia lists. If we really want "has part", fill it with bots, though I think that would be a bad idea as well. Tools can order lists any way you like, by name, coordinate (closeness to a point or whatnot), or any other property that is common to the items being sorted.

WereSpielChequers, I do respect the work that was done with manual lists on Wikipedia, but IMO they should be moved to Wikidata. By that, I mean their contents should be carefully copied to Wikidata, then the lists should be replaced by automatically generated ones, by bot and/or external display tool. There should only be one master copy, on Wikidata. "Syncing" between sites and technologies is hard enough to do once; on a continued basis, it is Madness (see the uppercase M? That's how mad it is!)

All: The tools I wrote so far that are used in WLM are either "working demos", or generic tools (like autolist). If they are not to your liking, I don't take it personally. But don't for a second think "this is the best we can do". As Jane said, people (users) here tend to be silent, so I throw something out there and see what sticks. Now that you have an idea of what can be done (at the very least), I think it is time to brainstorm a tool most people would be happy with (caveat feature-creep and design-by-committee and all that).

I hear the Python-based WLM tool is ported to Labs. I haven't worked with that, but I think it's good to have continuity there. Even if we run primarily on Wikidata, it could serve as a staging and management area; syncing Wikidata to its database would be orders of magnitude better than with Wikipedia manual lists.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 12:40 PM WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
As one of the Wikipedians who has been adding images and commons categories to the lists of English listed buildings currently on Wikipedia I rather hope that if the lists on Wikipedia are updated from Wikidata the update will go both ways, and Wikidata will import the additional work on Wikipedia.

Regards

Jonathan 


On 30 Jul 2015, at 11:05, Michael Maggs <michael@maggs.name> wrote:

Hi Jane

I've not been following closely what you're doing here, but I assume it is the updating of the existing Wikidata items for UK listed buildings rather than the creation of new ones?

As part of WLM last year, we obtained updated copies of the definitive lists from the English, Scottish, Welsh and NI listing bodies, as well as the scheduled ancient monuments records.  Magnus uploaded all of the ancient monument and the grade I and II* listed buildings direct to Wikidata - around 80,000 records if I remember rightly. 

We ran the WLM contest in the UK directly from these Wikidata records without going via Wikipedia at all. The old UK monuments database dates from before all that work. It is no longer useful and can be deleted.

If there are inconsistencies between Wikidata and Wikipedia regarding these lists, Wikipedia needs to be corrected/updated. 

Happy to discuss in more detail if you'd like to contact me off list. 

Michael 
_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Michael 

On 30 Jul 2015, at 10:59, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

Well I think your reasoning is what has kept us from doing this, and last year I would have agreed with you. However, let me begin by telling a story: one of the problems we have with filling the WLM lists in general is that we have very few wiki(p/m)edians who take pictures in remote rural areas near their home, but oddly, we have lots and lots of wiki(p/m)edians who take pictures in remote rural areas while on vacation (near or not to the homes of other wiki(p/m)edians apparently).

Today we have no unified WLM interface for wiki(p/m)edians to join WLM in any other language-pedia than their own, and I feel this is an unnecessary barrier to entry of potential WLM contributions.

The advantage of using the Wikidata list items for this purpose is that you have some control in presentation, whereas live queries have a haphazard list order based on date-of-creation-of-the-Wikidata-item

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com> wrote:
Ah, do we really want to duplicate information like this? The individual items already have "heritage status: Grade I listed structure" or somesuch. Manually curating a list on Q6646074 seems pointless when we can auto-generate it.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:00 AM Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
So now, for the Birmingham list (first link in the mail below), I added the first few monuments to the Wikidata item for this list here:

I used "has part"  but maybe there should be a property "list item"  or somesuch thing?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Moving monuments database to Wikidata
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition <wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>


OK I am now looking at your Q number Q5642705 and I see that it is a hall, so I expect it to be an instance of hall, but it's not and it's an instance of architectural structure. This item has an enwiki Wikipedia article and when I click what links here I see the WLM list here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Birmingham
Here I see only 4 columns - name, grade, date and architect

An item that is also a hall in NL is a water board building called a gemeenlandshuis. Here is an example item
This is an instance of gemeenlandshuis which in turn is a subclass of hall.

On the Dutch Wikipedia when I click what links here I see the link to the WLM list here:
This list has eight columns - name, original function, date, architect, location, coordinates, WLM ID, photo

The column headings should be coming from the monuments database, and the original function should be the reason the object made it into the WLM list.

I think both of these items should be part of a corresponding list on Wikidata. When I click what links here on Wikidata I see nothing that takes me to WLM. The only clue is the property P1435 for the British Q and property P359 for the Dutch Q. 

Maybe we should augment the corresponding list items with their members so that when you click what links here you are taken to the Q number of of the list item? This effectively migrates the lists to Wikidata

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
On 26 July 2015 at 07:42, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

> So such wikipedia articles should be labelled " instance of"  <the name of
> your identifier used in WLM>.

I believe that method has been deprecated, and it is preferred to use
a property P1435 ("heritage status" in English):

    https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1435

as done, for example, on:

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5642705

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
_______________________________________________
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org