Hello everybody.
I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to run
the Fundraising banner in Italy during September.

In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board worked
hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we
continued a very honest and direct conversation.
I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.

I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they
will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it
welcomed with the respect it deserves.

Best regards

Andrea

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki <
steinsplitter-wiki@live.com> wrote:

> Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]!
>
> So we can see what the community thinks about this.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
>
> > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200
> > From: romaine.wiki@gmail.com
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org;
> wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments
> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is
> > time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this
> situation. I
> > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising
> > teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September,
> and
> > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in
> > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the
> Wikimedia
> > movement?
> >
> > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I
> > have set up this Request for Comment:
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > New update:
> > >
> > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it
> resulted
> > > in:
> > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will
> > > have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.
> > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of
> > > Wikipedia
> > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
> > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
> > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social
> media
> > > fire
> > >
> > > They made clear this won't happen again.
> > >
> > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again,
> what
> > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the
> amount
> > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the
> time.
> > >
> > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki
> Loves
> > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most
> visitors to
> > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a
> small
> > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do
> not
> > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A
> > > blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest
> > > project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the
> core
> > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I
> have
> > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core
> > > infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
> > >
> > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising
> > > banner to a month later...
> > >
> > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept
> > > worden (literally: being shipped of).
> > >
> > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large
> > > ruined by it.
> > >
> > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team
> of
> > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many
> empty
> > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair
> > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
> > >
> > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
> multiple
> > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not
> really
> > > get it.
> > >
> > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF
> who
> > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain
> what
> > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the
> > > largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest
> in the
> > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so
> friendly to
> > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings.
> > >
> > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
> multiple
> > > people, they do not really get it.
> > >
> > > Lessons to be learned:
> > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for
> the
> > > movement, they have a target to make.
> > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a
> lot of
> > > weight and use it.
> > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner)
> is a
> > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one.
> > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
> > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed
> by
> > > those.
> > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the
> > > same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you
> > > can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously.
> > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even
> > > think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback
> on the
> > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in
> this
> > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
> > >
> > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let
> > > the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
> > >
> > > Romaine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <
> steinsplitter-wiki@live.com
> > > >:
> > >
> > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
> > >>
> > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first
> > >> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero
> > >> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other
> stuff, but
> > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor
> important
> > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Steinsplitter
> > >>
> > >> > From: rupert.thurner@gmail.com
> > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200
> > >> > To: janbart@wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente@gmail.com;
> > >> me.lyzzy@gmail.com; ubifrieda@gmail.com; jmh649@gmail.com;
> > >> darekj@alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic@kit.edu; jwales@wikia.com;
> > >> stu@wikimedia.org
> > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org;
> > >> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
> Monuments
> > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
> > >> >
> > >> > dear board,
> > >> >
> > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to
> spoil
> > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF
> cannot
> > >> and
> > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a
> > >> simple
> > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner
> for
> > >> WLM
> > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is
> covered by
> > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only
> > >> ones i
> > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy.
> if we
> > >> as
> > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is
> > >> better
> > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights
> to the
> > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the
> people
> > >> > doing some work.
> > >> >
> > >> > best,
> > >> > rupert
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <
> zanni.andrea84@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello everyone.
> > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for
> > >> > > Wikimedia Italia.
> > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some
> important
> > >> > > points.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted
> by
> > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained
> that
> > >> the
> > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign
> in
> > >> Italy
> > >> > > in September.
> > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is
> > >> well-known to
> > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years.
> > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014:  we discussed
> for
> > >> several
> > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners
> went
> > >> live
> > >> > > just for the last days.
> > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all
> September.
> > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the
> > >> history,
> > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and
> written
> > >> so in
> > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in
> > >> matters
> > >> > > of
> > >> > > communication.
> > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation,
> > >> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared
> in
> > >> the
> > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks
> > >> before
> > >> > > the beginning of WLM.
> > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in
> constructive
> > >> > > conversation and negotiation.
> > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's
> just
> > >> better
> > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few
> > >> days in
> > >> > > the middle of September.
> > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this
> does
> > >> not
> > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening.
> > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected
> > >> results
> > >> > > for WLM in 2015.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear
> > >> negative
> > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia
> > >> Italia.
> > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and
> > >> uploaded
> > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front
> of our
> > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+
> cultural
> > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation
> of
> > >> Italian
> > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of
> > >> Museums),
> > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club
> > >> Italiano
> > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT
> spends
> > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money,
> but
> > >> > > because we have higher stakes.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned
> > >> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry (
> > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana (
> > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana).
> > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from
> the
> > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we
> are
> > >> > > fighting
> > >> > > as WMIT.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes
> beyond
> > >> being
> > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create
> > >> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of
> > >> monuments.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama".
> > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of
> > >> monuments,
> > >> > > even if copyright has expired.
> > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For.
> > >> Every.
> > >> > > Monument.
> > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is
> no
> > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_projects
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy
> stats:
> > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is
> the
> > >> reason
> > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics
> each. In
> > >> 2014
> > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of
> number
> > >> of
> > >> > > photos.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement.
> > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia
> > >> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also
> Wiki
> > >> Loves
> > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other
> > >> sources).
> > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement:
> > >> but, for
> > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the
> very
> > >> > > activities it is meant to support.
> > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a
> > >> small
> > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international
> > >> competition
> > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of
> > >> pictures
> > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects.
> > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially
> when it
> > >> is
> > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to
> > >> build
> > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for
> all
> > >> the
> > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their
> career
> > >> to the
> > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also
> have a
> > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns.
> > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF
> fundraising
> > >> team
> > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be
> > >> confident
> > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and
> that in
> > >> the
> > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work
> more
> > >> > > collaboratively.
> > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with
> WMF
> > >> and all
> > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of
> all
> > >> the
> > >> > > Wikimedia movement.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us
> > >> opinions
> > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere.
> > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we
> would
> > >> like
> > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Andrea Zanni
> > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
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