There should be country specific subcategories there indeed - you are correct :) I suggest putting this category /in/ your country specific contest template. Not sure if someone already designed one actually to be re-used. Besides that I believe there are some temporary categories involved, like "needs to be included in the lists" etc which involved more manual work but can be done by anyone who knows Wikipedia. 

Best,
Lodewijk

2011/8/3 Susana Morais <susana.morais@wikimedia.pt>
Hello all,

I have some questions. For the WLM competition we will ask the participant to upload the photo with the ID number (he has previously seen in that great list we have in our site :)). Then the photo will be automatically (?) tagged under a specific sub-cat in this category http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011, right? Do the categories need to be more specific for the competition (this doenst mean we shouldnt be thinking how to organize them better after the wlm)? I think that it is easier during the WLM to have all photos in the competition in one simple category (easier for the jury).

Susana


2011/8/3 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>
Béria,
The key here is the word "monument". In order for a WLM participant to upload a photo based on local instructions, he needs an ID number. Presumeably he/she has found this number from your wonderful Portuguese map with ID coordinates on your WLM website, am I right? 

In the Netherlands, some (not ALL) Rijksmonuments have the number physically on a brown plaque on the building itself. What do you call this number? I assume you do not call it "Cultural heritage monument number". In order to match it to either the IGESPAR or SIPA numbers you will need to have a key in the ID number, won't you?

is tagged with the template {{IGESPAR|74571|type=IIP}}
I would therefore expect to see this category have photo's tagged with this same number, but for example, 
is not tagged.
I would expect the category to be placed in a category called "Category:IGESPAR objects in Lisbon (district)", but I see the category "Category:Imóveis de Interesse Público in Lisbon (district)" instead. 

I suppose the template sub-tag "IIP" stands for "Imóveis de Interesse Público", so I get that you have broken your designations down by type, but I am curious how you will instruct the jury to choose foto's if the photo's themselves are not tagged. Though my Portuguese is pretty bad, I think the (spectacular) pictures of the bulls themselves, which are also in that category are not "Imóveis".

Jane

2011/8/3 Béria Lima <beria.lima@wikimedia.pt>
We have lists outside IGESPAR. The IGESPAR one has 4K monuments, the SIPA one almost 40K. We are using both.
_____
Béria Lima
Wikimedia Portugal
(351) 963 953 042

Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.


On 3 August 2011 08:39, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
Béria,
Maybe I am just too unfamiliar with the technicalities, but my feeling would be yes, stuff all 4 categories into "IGESPAR objects in Portugal with known IDs". Under this toplevel, there should be for example, a category called "Monumentos Nacionais with known IDs".

Is there a problem with the WLM database that you can't have subcategories for the top-level ones? Or do you mean that you have lists outside of IGESPAR?

Jane


2011/8/2 Béria Lima <beria.lima@wikimedia.pt>
Portugal can't use a single name. We have 4 types of monuments ( see here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_in_Portugal ).

We can create 4 "main categories", but they would still need to be under a "Cultural Heritage in Portugal" category.
_____
Béria Lima
Wikimedia Portugal
(351) 963 953 042

Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.



On 2 August 2011 11:11, Kilian Kluge <kilian@k-kluge.de> wrote:
Hi Jane,

in Germany the trouble is that in every state there are different names for essentially the same thing. Some just have "Kulturdenkmale" (cultural heritage monuments), some have "Baudenkmale" ("building heritage monuments"), some have both, some differentiate between three or four categories... It's already a bit confusing on de-wp, where as a result the lists for each state have different naming schemes, and I doubt that it'd be helpful to carry this to Commons.

Kilian

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I am sending out a new message, since I feel this issue is pretty important and impacts a lot of Wikipedia projects. The other issues that Bas addressed also need follow up, but let's tackle these categories first.

This is the list of categories as they stand today on Commons in the top level category (see the email from Bas):
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Andorra with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Austria with known IDs
Category:Onroerend erfgoed with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Brussels with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Estonia (with known IDs)
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Hesse with known ID
Category:Rijksmonumenten with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Portugal with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Romania with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Spain with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in Wallonia with known IDs

I think only the Belgians and the Dutch have chosen their names well, because they are using the terms that are covered by law in their country. The other categories should be renamed to reflect the legal term in those countries. My reasons are as follows:
1) The term "Cultural heritage monument" is not defined anywhere, in any country's wikipedia.
2) We are using a formal designation that has been assigned by a government agency and is covered by the European Council's international law on cultural property. In order to refer to the proper designation, we need the formal name of the designation.
3) The sub categories are going to have native names anyway, so why have a strangely named top-level category that no one understands (including English-speakers)?
4) When we make interwiki links to these things we should be consistent across all countries. 

I noticed a confusing situation has already occurred in the German Wikipedia, where the top level category for the Austrian monuments is "Kategorie:Liste (Kulturdenkmale in Österreich)", when I fully expected it to be "Kategorie:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte". On Commons I would expect "Category:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte with known IDs", and in the English Wikipedia, I named it "Category:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte".

Jane

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