Hello all,
It is wonderful we finally have a good conversation about this.
There are several reasons why we should have the same dates throughout Europe - we discussed those both in Berlin and on this mailing list. I will not bore anyone with them right now though, because it doesn't matter any more. I'd love to have this discussion in depth, but let's do that elsewhere (I would recommand though to read through the meeting minutes of Berlin).
The current situation is simple: Wikimedia Switzerland decided (and I still disagree with that strongly) to ignore the agreed timeframe - for whatever reason. Since the contest is now already ongoing for them, it doesn't matter much any more for the contest.
Besides the time frame, there is the issue of the upload pipeline. This is another topic we agreed on together - and also here there are very good (and obvious) reasons: uploading should be as easy as possible. Right now, the pipeline of WMCH required participants to register *both* on Wikimedia Commons and on their website, to upload the images through the regular Commons upload system, to manually tag them (not with any monument ID btw) and thén to mark them through the contest website. This is totally different from the intended and agreed pipeline, which is much more simple: Create an account on Commons, use the special, simplified upload form - enter the monument identifier and done. We will take care of the rest.
There are a few things we need to resolve:
1. Which images are admissible for the European competition
2. How can we simplify the uploading methods currently in place (which are even more complicated than normal upload procedures.)
3. How do we communicate this all
For 1. I think that it doesn't help anyone to exclude images from Switzerland. However, the monuments uploaded through commons currently lack identifiers - as long as they miss those, they are not eligible. (But I assume that can be fixed). An alternative could be to only accept images uploaded between 1 and 30 september. Please note that it was already in the plan that it wouldn't matter to us *when* the photo was taken, but only when it was uploaded. I cannot make this decision by myself though.
For 2. I think it would be best if WMCH would simplify their procedures as much as possible. Not because we agreed, but because that improves participation. There will become tooling available for easier uploading but that will be become available at the agreed upon time schedule. We can't speed this up for you. You could consider hacking together a form like WMNL used last year to significantly simplify uploading. Please check the post mortem 2010 for more information.
For 3. I think it would help if we could consider July/August as a "silent start" - trying to persuade your partners to not advertize it too loudly until September 1. That way potential participants can enjoy the then available tooling and more easy upload system. I know this is uncomfortable, but I would really appreciate it if you could postpone publicizing as much as possible until September.
I hope that the hostile tone can be left behind - fights over independence and agreements will help nobody. Let's try to reduce damage and find a middle way.
Best regards,
Lodewijk2011/7/5 Ilario Valdelli
<valdelli@gmail.com>
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:57 PM, GoEthe.wiki <
goethe.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the point is: maybe it would also have advantages for other
> countries to do the contest in different times, duration, etc., but we
> decided as a group to have it simultaneously for logistic, promotional and
> fairness reasons.
It's not a question of advantage, it's a question for a better
logistic, a better promotion and a better fairness reason.
The question is simple, If we had received a negative answer to Nico's
question, surely we would sit down and discuss with the partners
whether there was possible to participate. I can anticipate that the
question was probably negative.
The decision of the Swiss contest has been a shared decision not with
the chapters, but with the partners, which are directly involved in
this national organization.
I agree that the European contest must be a decision taken by the
chapters, but the National contest is a decision taken by the local
chapter and the partners and they must decide the best solution to
have a successful event.
Now Switzerland in a middle of a dispute: to comply with the decision
of the chapters or to comply with the decision of the partners.
It seems to me honest to say that we would respect the decision of the
partners for the Swiss contest because it is a local organization and
the partners participate with their internal resources, we would
respect the decision of the chapters for the European contest because
it is a shared decision and there is no sense to have an independent
decision.
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