Hello all,
I didn't quite get the beginning of this thread, but I have some remarks
from what I understand. First of all, there seem to be two issues here:
1. Organization issue: Having a category tree to allow browsing by
"ID-enabled" images (in WLM-PT we have linked commons categories with
object ids whenever possible);
2. Convenience issue: Having a specific category for images of country
objects to pass on to the jury, as a pool of candidates.
Jane, the unfortunate part is that I've been removing the {{IGESPAR}}
template from all images I've found whenever there is a category for the
"objects" in question (or one that I have created for that purpose).
That's what makes sense to me, anyway, but doesn't invalidate having
whatever top-categories - in this case, "Cultural heritage monuments in
Portugal with known IDs" (it would aggregate
{{IGESPAR}}+{{DRAC-RAM}}+{{DRAM-RAA}} then, although I'm (lazily) using
Category:IGESPAR for that.
Lodewijk, complementing, the country-specific category could be fetched
from the parameters passed to the form, right? I believe we already
agreed on passing an ID and a Country.
Susana, I actually believe we should categorize a lot! See:
- Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011, for those who want to dig into
*all* images from *all* contries - like Europeana's Art Noveau Juri;
- Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_Portugal, for Portuguese Juri;
- Imóveis_de_Interesse_Público_in_Lisbon (replace "Imóveis de Interesse
Público" and "Lisbon" accordingly) to keep up with the current category
structure, which is IGESPAR related.
- Campo_Pequeno - which is the building category;
- IGESPAR - inherited from {{IGESPAR}} (and due to my laziness, DRAC-RAM
and DRAC-RAA) which is used to tag an ID into the picture (or category).
- Up to now, I'm expected that the categories get automatically placed,
either from the form, or a post-bot-run. Eventually there are others:
manually inserted, like "Palaces in Portugal", and those related to
geolocalization that don't interfere with anything, I believe.
In short, Jane and Susana, I wouldn't mix {{IGESPAR}} and
{{Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_Portugal}} purposes. The former
is for keeping a link between the lists, and the second is for the Juri.
You can imagine how the bottom of the page will look, though :)
Béria, just a note regarding SIPA and IGESPAR: only IGESPAR's objects
have some kind of protection; this means SIPA's shouldn't have
designations like "Monumento Nacional". In the end, roughly, all SIPA
are "unprotected".
This also means the everyone relying to IGESPAR id should be clarified
by now: the monument ID is a specific WLM id. Its range will dictate to
which it refers to: IGESPAR, Azores, Madeira or SIPA.
--
Nuno Tavares
Wikimedia Portugal
http://www.wikimedia.pt
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
estamos a fazer.
Participe também:
http://www.wikimedia.pt
Em 03-08-2011 09:53, Lodewijk escreveu:
There should be country specific subcategories there
indeed - you are
correct :) I suggest putting this category /in/ your country specific
contest template. Not sure if someone already designed one actually to
be re-used. Besides that I believe there are some temporary categories
involved, like "needs to be included in the lists" etc which involved
more manual work but can be done by anyone who knows Wikipedia.
Best,
Lodewijk
2011/8/3 Susana Morais <susana.morais(a)wikimedia.pt
<mailto:susana.morais@wikimedia.pt>>
Hello all,
I have some questions. For the WLM competition we will ask the
participant to upload the photo with the ID number (he has
previously seen in that great list we have in our site :)). Then the
photo will be automatically (?) tagged under a specific sub-cat in
this
category
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments…,
right? Do the categories need to be more specific for the
competition (this doenst mean we shouldnt be thinking how to
organize them better after the wlm)? I think that it is easier
during the WLM to have all photos in the competition in one simple
category (easier for the jury).
Susana
2011/8/3 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com <mailto:jane023@gmail.com>>
Béria,
The key here is the word "monument". In order for a WLM
participant to upload a photo based on local instructions, he
needs an ID number. Presumeably he/she has found this number
from your wonderful Portuguese map with ID coordinates on your
WLM website, am I right?
In the Netherlands, some (not ALL) Rijksmonuments have the
number physically on a brown plaque on the building itself. What
do you call this number? I assume you do not call it "Cultural
heritage monument number". In order to match it to either the
IGESPAR or SIPA numbers you will need to have a key in the ID
number, won't you?
I noticed the following situation:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Campo_Pequeno_Lisboa
is tagged with the template {{IGESPAR|74571|type=IIP}}
I would therefore expect to see this category have photo's
tagged with this same number, but for example,
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Campo_Pequeno_lisbon.JPG
is not tagged.
I would expect the category to be placed in a category called
"Category:IGESPAR objects in Lisbon (district)", but I see the
category "Category:Imóveis de Interesse Público in Lisbon
(district)" instead.
I suppose the template sub-tag "IIP" stands for "Imóveis de
Interesse Público", so I get that you have broken your
designations down by type, but I am curious how you will
instruct the jury to choose foto's if the photo's themselves are
not tagged. Though my Portuguese is pretty bad, I think the
(spectacular) pictures of the bulls themselves, which are also
in that category are not "Imóveis".
Jane
2011/8/3 Béria Lima <beria.lima(a)wikimedia.pt
<mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt>>
We have lists outside IGESPAR. The IGESPAR one has 4K
monuments, the SIPA one almost 40K. We are using both.
_____
/Béria Lima/
Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
(351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a
possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o
conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer./
On 3 August 2011 08:39, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com
<mailto:jane023@gmail.com>> wrote:
Béria,
Maybe I am just too unfamiliar with the technicalities,
but my feeling would be yes, stuff all 4 categories into
"IGESPAR objects in Portugal with known IDs". Under this
toplevel, there should be for example, a category called
"Monumentos Nacionais with known IDs".
Is there a problem with the WLM database that you can't
have subcategories for the top-level ones? Or do you
mean that you have lists outside of IGESPAR?
Jane
2011/8/2 Béria Lima <beria.lima(a)wikimedia.pt
<mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt>>
Portugal can't use a single name. We have 4 types of
monuments ( see here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_in_Port…
).
We can create 4 "main categories", but they would
still need to be under a "Cultural Heritage in
Portugal" category.
_____
/Béria Lima/
Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
(351) 963 953 042
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a
possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de
todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer./
On 2 August 2011 11:11, Kilian Kluge
<kilian(a)k-kluge.de <mailto:kilian@k-kluge.de>> wrote:
Hi Jane,
in Germany the trouble is that in every state
there are different names for essentially the
same thing. Some just have "Kulturdenkmale"
(cultural heritage monuments), some have
"Baudenkmale" ("building heritage
monuments"),
some have both, some differentiate between three
or four categories... It's already a bit
confusing on de-wp, where as a result the lists
for each state have different naming schemes,
and I doubt that it'd be helpful to carry this
to Commons.
Kilian
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Jane Darnell
<jane023(a)gmail.com <mailto:jane023@gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hi all,
I am sending out a new message, since I feel
this issue is pretty important and impacts a
lot of Wikipedia projects. The other issues
that Bas addressed also need follow up, but
let's tackle these categories first.
This is the list of categories as they stand
today on Commons in the top level category
(see the email from Bas):
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Andorra with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Austria with known IDs
Category:Onroerend erfgoed with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Brussels with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Estonia (with known IDs)
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Hesse with known ID
Category:Rijksmonumenten with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Portugal with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Romania with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Spain with known IDs
Category:Cultural heritage monuments in
Wallonia with known IDs
I think only the Belgians and the Dutch have
chosen their names well, because they are
using the terms that are covered by law in
their country. The other categories should
be renamed to reflect the legal term in
those countries. My reasons are as follows:
1) The term "Cultural heritage monument" is
not defined anywhere, in any country's
wikipedia.
2) We are using a formal designation that
has been assigned by a government agency and
is covered by the European Council's
international law on cultural property. In
order to refer to the proper designation, we
need the formal name of the designation.
3) The sub categories are going to have
native names anyway, so why have a strangely
named top-level category that no one
understands (including English-speakers)?
4) When we make interwiki links to these
things we should be consistent across all
countries.
I noticed a confusing situation has already
occurred in the German Wikipedia, where the
top level category for the Austrian
monuments is "Kategorie:Liste
(Kulturdenkmale in Österreich)", when I
fully expected it to be
"Kategorie:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte". On
Commons I would expect
"Category:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte with
known IDs", and in the English Wikipedia, I
named it "Category:Denkmalgeschütztes Objekte".
Jane
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