OK, just to clarify:

2011/7/22 Hubert <hubert.laska@gmx.at>
Am 22.07.2011 12:01, schrieb Lodewijk:
> Hi Hubert,
>
> thanks for summarizing your ideas. The actual situation will be a little
> different most likely. I had a short chat with Maarten yesterday, and it
> seems like the upload form progress is going well. Don't pin me down on
> details, but this should give an idea.�
>
> 1. We will indeed be able to use the new upload wizard

hi Lodewijk,
We do not care which upload-Form we will use, important for us is the
possibility to handover predefined informations.

> 2. There will be a 'campaign' for each country. For example the campaign
> 'wlm-ch'
The same in Austria, but this will be part of my next efforts, what
possibilities we have, especially if and how we are able to place
category-related banner inside Wikipedia.

> 3. Each campaign will be translated into several languages (always make
> English available for tourists!), for example uselang=en
> 4. It will not be possible to call a database during the upload process.�
I know it. Therefor our solution, using informations directly from the
Tables.
> 5. The user will provide the identifier of the object in the form
This is exactly, what we will avoid. What happens, if the User have no
idea, where he will get the ID? This is, in my opinion, the first weak
point in the system.

Last year we did this too, and it worked quite well. We had several methods explained how they could find the identifier - through Wikipedia's lists, through a map with all the monuments on it (using the coordinates) or in another way. I believe someone was working on making it possible to query the database too etc. Maarten (or someone else) might be able to give more details. We can provide a link to that within the form. If we can transfer the identifier with the url, we could prefill it. But that assumes they already look it up on beforehand. 
 
> 6. Information like categories, object names etc can be added later with
> a bot, based on this identifier.
Unless we have to do with computer-affinity users, this will be no
problem, because the latter will find the user ID. But what happens to
those, the computer (and Wikipedia) is not more than a simple tool and
not familiar with Alt-tab or Ctrl-tab having problems with several
browser-tabs at the same time? Seniors? Pupils?

OK, I was not clear here I guess. Some volunteers will add this information with a bot for /all/ uploads, based on the database (which is again based on the wikipedia lists). If you are a pupil, then don't worry - just upload and we will take care of the rest. 
 

My own experience with Commons was, that I tried three times, unless I
uploaded my first picture successfully. But I am Wikipedian since 2004
with 80.000 edits!

> 7. Whether prefilling based on the url is possible or not is to be found
> out.�
>
Yes. We demonstrated one single possibility, which is - of course -
optimized for austrian monument lists.
> I know this is not perfect, but this seems to be the best we can
> realistically aim for right now. What would be very very helpful by the
> way is if someone could hack a special Commonist together. Removing all
> the unnecessary fields, tweaking it for WLM and make mass uploading that
> way easier.�
jepp.


Hubertl.

> Lodewijk
>
> 2011/7/22 Hubert <hubert.laska@gmx.at <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at>>
>
>     We can summarize the yesterday discussion and Upload-form-demonstration,
>     I think we all agree so far:
>
>     An enormously important point for the entire project WLM is the ability
>     to simplify the uploading process for the participants of the photo
>     contest. Basically, this is quiet easy to create, but we must emphasize
>     the following:
>
>     1. Before any participation is the registration - the actual situation
>     is not reduceable.
>
> indeed
> �
>
>
>     2. To the participants it must be given some specific requirements
>     without choice: That is: "Own work" as well as the predefined license.
>
> yup
> �
>
>
>     3. Thus there remains only that the participants upload his image and
>     the ability, to give a personal description (if desired).
>
> Upload the image and give identifier (either prefilled or not)
> �
>
>
>     That's all from the perspective of the participant. Our perspective
>     results in further, much more important considerations:
>
>     1. We need to identify the images - The easiest way is a country code
>     and the object ID as a minimal setting.
>
> Country code: campaign (which form do you use)
> ID: identifier field
> �
>
>
>     2. To reduce further work from our side, the images should be
>     categorized at the same time while the upload-process takes place, but
>     this requires a good category management, which at least will assume the
>     category-system from Wikipedia to Commons.
>
> This will have to happen with a bot.�
> �
>
>
>     3. In addition, we should automatically hand over as much information as
>     possible (or necessary). This is: name of the object, address of the
>     object (district, town name, adress), geographic coordinates, perhaps
>     also an existing short description of inside the monument-tables. But
>     that presupposes the access to the upload-form directly from Wikipedia
>     (cultural monument tables).
>
> This will have to happen after uploading with a bot.�
> �
>
>
>     4. Images of cultural objects, which are not officially designated
>     cultural monuments (and therefore not included in the lists) can be
>     uploaded via the parish or other articles, thus we need an
>     Community-Code �as the ID key, zip code, an the country code as a
>     minimum requirement.
>
> If the monument is not in the list, they can not participate in the
> contest unfortunately. At least, that is the very basis of the contest,
> if an exception to that is necessary, lets discuss that in a seperate
> thread.�
> �
>
>
>     5. We need to clarify that only images can participate in this contest,
>     which are uploaded in September. This can be regulated, so that any
>     upload from the relevant pages with the special upload form is only
>     possible, when this forms are unlocked on september, 1. Only with the
>     upload form the object ID can be transfered.
>
> A bot can easily change templates of all uploads with the WLM template
> which are uploaded before Sept 1. No need to worry about that.�
> �
>
>
>     6. We need to ensure in Commons itself, that any uploading for the
>     competition must be easily visible through a special selection of
>     different forms. This requires a clear indication (banners etc)
>
>     All this concerns only one aspect of the complete project, but it is
>     neccessary for the persistent use of the images via Commons, as well as
>     for the assessment by the national judging panels.
>
>     That implementation is possible to handover all the information with an
>     link, I demonstrated yesterday. Our task should be to explore the
>     already existing links to the individual objects within Wikipedia and to
>     integrate into the overall concept.
>
> Technically that is possible yes, however it is unsure if this would
> also be possible in a simplified form. The form you used is
> unfortunately incomprehensible for most mortals. I usually suggest that
> my grandmother should be able to participate.�
>
> �
>
>
>     greetings from Vienna
>
>     Hubertl
>
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