as I understood it (usual disclaimers apply) the problem would be that the form would be much slower and breaking-sensitive if it would have to contact the database etc - besides being more complicated to make. I would also love it and would like to see it happen of course, but I guess it is more important to first ensure it actually works - which is also a tough job to get done in time apparently :) 

Best,

Lodewijk (who considers creating a wish list for next year!)

2011/7/21 Nuno Tavares <nuno.tavares@wikimedia.pt>
Lodewijk,


Lodewijk escreveu:
> As I understand it (but I'm not technical, so for details and
> contradictions I refer to our tech wizards ;-) ) it would not be easy to
> let the wizard have access to the database too. However, if we can
> include the identifier only, then it would already be possible to
> afterwards go through the uploads with a bot and make all the other
> changes based on the database! (basically the same, but with a slight delay)

I really hope there is some kind of access to the monuments database,
otherwise everything will seem to be a bit "blind"... for instance, the
template {{IGESPAR}} at commons will accept an ID and a classification
(which is available throught the DB).

Even if access to DB is not direct, it could be done with dynamic
(AJAX-style) queries to the toolserver (I believe) so the form would be
automatically filled anyway. This is especially relevant if someone will
upload *from* Commons and not from the monuments lists...

But I can antecipate some difficulties, yes... I'm sure Maarten will
negotiate the best possible.

-NT


>     I like the idea of having links from the articles as well. At WMP we
>     spent some time crossing the list with the article links and commons
>     category, so we should know exactly which articles really exist (for the
>     objects on the list). This way we could run through all and put a simple
>     template just to say "Upload photos for this article and win prizes!",
>     something like that (this is obviously an exaggeration).
>
>     Having the link in the table seems possible as well, at least for those
>     who compiled the lists with a template, as recommended.
>
>     Great work Hubert!
>
>     --
>     Nuno Tavares
>     Wikimedia Portugal
>     http://www.wikimedia.pt
>
>     Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>     livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
>     estamos a fazer.
>
>     Participe também: http://www.wikimedia.pt
>
>
>
>     Hubert escreveu:
>     >
>     > Am 21.07.2011 14:49, schrieb Lodewijk:
>     >> Hi Hubert,
>     >>
>     >> thanks a lot for the clarification. I did not mean to suggest the
>     bigger
>     >> picture was less important, it definitely is worth going after! It
>     >> sounds great what you are all doing, I have so little to add to
>     it. It
>     >> is only that I wanted to be sure about a few things because it is
>     >> relevant for European coordination, hence :)
>     >>
>     >
>     > dear Lodewijk,
>     >
>     > for me, an european coordination is essential. but not just for WLM,
>     > even for any other picture-Contest ever happen, or happen in an
>     european
>     > public context. We want all pictures, which are made in such
>     > competitions in future. :-)
>     >
>     >
>     >> Uploading directly linked from the monument lists sounds like
>     walhalla!
>     >>
>     > Look here, there is a small table (it is just a testsituation since
>     > yesterday!!), where you can see three icons below "Standort":
>     >
>     > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:AleXXw/Test/2
>     >
>     > with one Click, (commons-icon) you can upload your photo (if you
>     have an
>     > account), If you don´t have an account, then you will first be
>     prompted
>     > to create one.
>     >
>     > All informations which belong to this property will be transfered
>     with a
>     > link to commons, including the spatial data, Name of the Objekt,
>     adress,
>     > and additionally an object ID. So, the uploading is extremely simple.
>     > Just select the foto, an send it. Thats all. We are even thinking
>     about
>     > to handover the short description of this objekt (if there is an
>     > description).
>     >
>     > Because there are already a lot of articles to individual objects,
>     it is
>     > conceivable that even in articles to objects, we can makes a
>     direct link
>     > to upload pictures. Fixed with similar specifications, so that it is
>     > extremlely easy for new User to take part.
>     >
>     > During this process, all pictures from this property will also be
>     > correctly categorized inside commons (should be), so we can
>     separate  it
>     > easily for the contest itself.
>     >
>     > Later then, there will be a link inside the tables to see all/more
>     > pictures of this particular object in Commons. (like: Object in
>     Commons)
>     > Just with one Click. Like this:
>     >
>     > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Palais_Pallavicini?uselang=de
>     >
>     > This is our plan for this Year. Next year maybe it is possible to
>     > participate to WLM2012 directly from OSM, because we would like to
>     > transfer all our 36.000 Objekts to OpenStreeMap. Maybe even to
>     > GoogleMaps and BingMaps.
>     >
>     > In all cases, partipicants will come first to our lists (or articles),
>     > then to the upload-form.
>     >
>     > Next Year! Or the following two :-)
>     >
>     > regards
>     >
>     > Hubertl
>     >
>     >> Lodewijk
>     >>
>     >> 2011/7/21 Hubert <hubert.laska@gmx.at
>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at> <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at
>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at>>>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>     Am 21.07.2011 14:00, schrieb Lodewijk:
>     >>     > Hi Hubert,
>     >>     >
>     >>     > thanks a lot for this report. It sounds like an exciting
>     cooperation!
>     >>     >
>     >>     > However, it is not entirely clear to me how big the overlap is
>     >>     with the
>     >>     > Wiki Loves Monuments contest - in any case I love to hear about
>     >>     it, but
>     >>     > just to make sure we are on one line. Will the WLM contest
>     in Austria
>     >>     > also be throughout the whole month September, also have a jury
>     >>     > delivering nominations before November 1, and awarding
>     prizes on
>     >>     > national level?
>     >>
>     >>     Hi Lodewijk,
>     >>
>     >>     WLM is the central point of all our efforts in Austria for
>     the next
>     >>     months, it has its own website (as in Germany and in other
>     countries)
>     >>     WLM is supported throughout by all Wikipedians in Austria.
>     >>
>     >>     The last point, jury and prize award is much more the work and
>     >>     responsibility of Wikimedia Austria. For most Wikipedians in
>     Austria,
>     >>     this everything around will have no significance.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>     We will go so far that uploading photos for WLM can also be
>     performed
>     >>     directly from the the monument lists, directly from the
>     >>     object, which allows automatically the assigning of every
>     photo with the
>     >>     individual objekt-ID. During september (and before), all
>     efforts go
>     >>     directly into the Wiki loves monuments projekt. But, we are
>     looking
>     >>     further.
>     >>
>     >>     The monument lists are completed right now in Austria to 98%.
>     We will
>     >>     finish all Lists until the end of August, so that we can use
>     it as one
>     >>     starting point for WlM. And not the lists only, even the related
>     >>     Community-articles and related Articles.
>     >>
>     >>     These additional agreements with the Federal Heritage Office
>     also serve
>     >>     Wikipedia and Commons as an important tool to become part of the
>     >>     Austrian education system.
>     >>
>     >>     For me personally, WLM is just one part of a much bigger
>     idea. But very
>     >>     impressive in its very special momentum.
>     >>
>     >>     Hubertl
>     >>
>     >>     >
>     >>     > Thanks,
>     >>     >
>     >>     > Lodewijk
>     >>     >
>     >>     > 2011/7/21 Hubert <hubert.laska@gmx.at
>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at> <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at
>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at>>
>     >>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at>
>     <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at <mailto:hubert.laska@gmx.at>>>>
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     First report for Austria:
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The project Wiki Loves monument takes place simultaneously
>     >>     with their
>     >>     >     own efforts for the acquisition of Austrias cultural
>     heritage in
>     >>     >     Wikipedia. The Dehio-project was started in Austria in
>     >>     December 2009,
>     >>     >     but the systematic recording of the objects starts this
>     year
>     >>     on a larger
>     >>     >     scale. Particularly noteworthy is that there are about
>     80 to 100
>     >>     >     austrian Wikipedians who contribute to this project
>     (lists of
>     >>     >     monuments).
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Cooperation with the Federal Monuments Office
>     (Bundesdenkmalamt)
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     A delegation of Wikipedians Wikimedia Austria, have brought
>     >>     about a
>     >>     >     far-reaching cooperation with the Federal Heritage
>     Office of
>     >>     Austria.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     This cooperation involves several steps, the period of the
>     >>     collaboration
>     >>     >     is intended to be permanent.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Wikipedia and Wikimedia Austria are officially a partner of
>     >>     the Federal
>     >>     >     Monuments Office for at first two photo contests (National
>     >>     Heritage Day
>     >>     >     and International Heritage Photographic Experience.)
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The Federal Heritage Office itself supports the
>     monument list
>     >>     team of
>     >>     >     Wikipedia in extensive form with the corresponding data
>     for 36 000
>     >>     >     objects of all listed properties in Austria.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Especially with regard to the annual update of all content.
>     >>     This allows
>     >>     >     Wikipedia to create monument lists for all
>     municipalities in
>     >>     Austria to
>     >>     >     create these lists and to actualize those lists in
>     short term
>     >>     to bring
>     >>     >     them up to date automatically to a great extent.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The following two photo contests were discussed and
>     agreement
>     >>     reached.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     1. The Heritage Day - especially the photo competition
>     for the
>     >>     day,
>     >>     >     which takes place annually on the last Sunday in September.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     2. IHPE - International Heritage Photographic Experience.
>     >>     (Beginning in
>     >>     >     October 2011 to March 2012)
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The Heritage Day
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The European Heritage Days are a Community Action under the
>     >>     patronage of
>     >>     >     the Council of Europe and the European Commission and will
>     >>     take place
>     >>     >     this year for the 25th Time in a now 50 member
>     countries. The
>     >>     event
>     >>     >     itself runs throughout September in Europe, in Austria
>     on the last
>     >>     >     Sunday of the month. The core of the Heritage Day for
>     Austria
>     >>     will be
>     >>     >     the accessibility of listed buildings with guided
>     tours, which are
>     >>     >     usually not publicly accessible. More important, we should
>     >>     also yield
>     >>     >     because of the photo.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     International Heritage Photographic Experience
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The second agreemanent is also under the auspices of the
>     >>     Council of
>     >>     >     Europe standing photo contest for young person under 21
>     years
>     >>     by the
>     >>     >     Federal Monuments Office for the 7th Times for Austria
>     and is
>     >>     generally
>     >>     >     dedicated to the cultural heritage. Overall, it is the 16th
>     >>     >     competition. The website of the organizers based in
>     Catalonia
>     >>     >     (Generalitat de Catalunya, Museo d'Historia de Catalunya)
>     >>     shows the 14
>     >>     >     Competition and pictures of the final event in Strasbourg.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     The purpose of this competition will be photos of all
>     36 000
>     >>     monuments
>     >>     >     which are listed in the Wikipedia lists of monuments, which
>     >>     can then be
>     >>     >     assigned directly by id-numbers, corresponding to the
>     respective
>     >>     >     objects. All these photos become part of Wikimedia Commons.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Overall, young people from 50 countries participate in this
>     >>     event, with
>     >>     >     each country organizes the competition on their own and
>     >>     perform - as
>     >>     >     well as the selection of the winning photos -, which then
>     >>     opens into a
>     >>     >     common, printed catalog, which is produced in Barcelona. At
>     >>     the end of
>     >>     >     each year, a large final event (this year on 6 December
>     2011
>     >>     at the
>     >>     >     Palais de l'Europe in Strasbourg), which is
>     simultaneously the
>     >>     start of
>     >>     >     the last part of a years contest, because in March, 31,
>     2012
>     >>     is the
>     >>     >     closing for upload images for the previous content.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     All photos, which are made in these competitions in Austria
>     >>     are part
>     >>     >     of Wikimedia Commons.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Other projects
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     MEMORIAL place of learning is the cultural exchange
>     program of the
>     >>     >     Federal Monuments Office.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >        "The goal is to learn together with teachers and
>     students
>     >>     know the
>     >>     >     areas of Monument, Monument Protection and Conservation, to
>     >>     explore and
>     >>     >     experience. Whether through projects, workshops or
>     tours - in
>     >>     the center
>     >>     >     of the monument are a place of learning and exploration
>     >>     exploration of
>     >>     >     our cultural heritage in the living environment of
>     children and
>     >>     >     adolescents. The meeting opened with monuments young
>     creative
>     >>     freedom
>     >>     >     and develops a variety of talents, so that perception and
>     >>     appreciation
>     >>     >     for cultural products can grow. "
>     >>     >
>     >>     >        - Federal Monuments Office, Andrea Böhm
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Another project - currently standing in the development
>     phase
>     >>     - is  so
>     >>     >     called "monument in the village" This action helds place in
>     >>     Austria's
>     >>     >     schools and communities to discover and to motivate people
>     >>     documenting
>     >>     >     their own cultural environment and is expected to start in
>     >>     spring 2012.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Wikipedia will also be part of this project,  because it is
>     >>     directly
>     >>     >     related to the Wikipedia article-work and part of the
>     >>     monuments lists
>     >>     >     themselves.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     What is the benefit for Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons?
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     All taken pictures which have been taken through the years
>     >>     during all
>     >>     >     events are on some hard drives and are not used for public
>     >>     use. All the
>     >>     >     pictures from this events for the next few years, will
>     be part of
>     >>     >     Wikimedia Commons under a free license given,
>     Cc-by-sa-3.0 AT.
>     >>     This is
>     >>     >     determined by us, the Federal Monuments Office supports
>     this
>     >>     idea and
>     >>     >     implement it explicitly. The same also applies for all
>     >>     photographs that
>     >>     >     are done for the day of the memorial. These photos are
>     part of
>     >>     Wikimedia
>     >>     >     Commons, equally as the photos for Wiki Loves monument.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Both photo projects aimed at young people primarily -
>     but not
>     >>     only - in
>     >>     >     order to bring the idea of protecting cultural heritage
>     >>     values. The
>     >>     >     Federal Monuments Office will launch in schools and other
>     >>     institutions
>     >>     >     in total 137 000 folders, and all interested
>     participants will
>     >>     be guided
>     >>     >     to upload to the website of Wikipedia and Wikimedia
>     Commons.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Wikipedians will also participate in the jury
>     (pre-judging /
>     >>     ev. Main
>     >>     >     panel) for all contests, listen above.
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     Greetings Hubertl (de:wikipedia)
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     >     _______________________________________________
>     >>     >     Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     >>     >     WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     >>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>     >>     >     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     >>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>>>
>     >>     >
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     >>     >     http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     > _______________________________________________
>     >>     > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     >>     > WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     >>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>     >>     > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     >>     > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>     >>
>     >>     _______________________________________________
>     >>     Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     >>     WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     >>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>     >>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     >>     http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     >> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     > WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>     WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>     http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu

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